Saw Sled Question

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Nah, I don't have a question on how to make one, this will be about number 5 maybe.
While I was contemplating makng runners for it, which is always kinda a PITA, t occurred to me to skip runners. Instead it seems that a chunk of 2X2, or something along those lines, under the sled, on each side of the table top, and use that in guiding the slde. I only have the straight sides of the top, nothing jutting out.
I don't see why this wouldn't work as well as using runners in the slots, it would be easier than aligning rrunners, and simpler all around.
And, no, I don't see friction as being a problem, a bit of Johnston's paste wax (or similar) will stolve that. I've not started work on it yet - because of changed needs, am finalizing a couple of design change - but will probably go ahead and try this. But, as I haven't started yet, decided I'd see if I can get any viable input - I'm not betting the ranch on that.
So, has anyone tried this before? And, if so, what would any down side be?
JOAT Never confuse "Oh, I can't do this!" with "Oh, I've never done this!". - JOAT
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J T (in snipped-for-privacy@storefull-3335.bay.webtv.net) said:
| And, no, I don't see friction as being a problem, a bit of | Johnston's paste wax (or similar) will stolve that. I've not | started work on it yet - because of changed needs, am finalizing a | couple of design change - but will probably go ahead and try this. | But, as I haven't started yet, decided I'd see if I can get any | viable input - I'm not betting the ranch on that. | | So, has anyone tried this before? And, if so, what would any | down side be?
This is what I wanted to do before I noticed that the wings on my saw didn't have nice edges for the runners to bear against. You may have a friendlier set-up.
You'll probably want to make sure that the table's side edges are parallel with the blade, just as you'd want the miter slots to be for a runner-type fence.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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Sun, Jun 4, 2006, 1:25pm (EDT-1) snipped-for-privacy@iedu.com (MorrisDovey) dideth mumble: This is what I wanted to do before I noticed that the wings on my saw didn't have nice edges for the runners to bear against. You may have a friendlier set-up. You'll probably want to make sure that the table's side edges are parallel with the blade, just as you'd want the miter slots to be for a runner-type fence.
Ah, I wondered if anyone else had thought about doing that. Yep, the sides are smoothe enough. But, hadn't thought about being parralel. I did just tune the saw, aligning the blade with the slots. It's more or less only about .000000001 off, but I figured that's close enough and didn't bother trying to get it better. I'll go back and check the parallility of the blade with the sides. Anyway, that's nothing a bit of sanding, or grinding, shouldn't take care of.
JOAT Never confuse "Oh, I can't do this!" with "Oh, I've never done this!". - JOAT
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Morris Dovey wrote:

I did htat to make a sled for a router table, screwing Doug Fir 1 x 2s onto the edges to provide a mooth straight track. It worked fine, paste wax is a good finish and lubricant for it.
--

FF


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Years ago when I has a smaller saw and wanted to cross cut large panels I clamped a straight edge on the left bottom side of the panel and used the left table edge as a guide. It worked OK. Like Morris indicated, the table sides may not be parallel to the blade and equally as bad they may not be parallel to each other. The fit would become tighter or looser if the later was the case. Put the runner on and don't worry with it being perfectly perpendicular to the front or back of the sled. On top of the sled attach the fence with screws and let the fence pivot on one screw until you have it tuned in square.
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Sun, Jun 4, 2006, 7:04pm (EDT+4) snipped-for-privacy@swbell.net (Leon)now mumbleth: Years ago when I has a smaller saw and wanted to cross cut large panels I clamped a straight edge on the left bottom side of the panel and used the left table edge as a guide. It worked OK. Like Morris indicated, the table sides may not be parallel to the blade and equally as bad they may not be parallel to each other. The fit would become tighter or looser if the later was the case. Put the runner on and don't worry with it being perfectly perpendicular to the front or back of the sled. On top of the sled attach the fence with screws and let the fence pivot on one screw until you have it tuned in square.
Hadn't thought about claming a straightedge on. Can't use the idea in this application, but gives me an idea for another later on.
Hadn't thought about both sides maybe not being parallel. I'll check both now. If they're off, but not too far, a bt of sanding, or grinding, should solve that.
Actually, I've had good luck positioning a piece to line my back fence up with the blae, then psitioning the actual fence against it, and gluing the fence into place. Might b an extra step, but I prefer keeping ANY metal out of my sleds and jigs.
And I don't care what the rest of the people here seay about you and Morris, I think you're both OK. LMAO
JOAT Never confuse "Oh, I can't do this!" with "Oh, I've never done this!". - JOAT
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J T wrote:

Should work fine as long as your sides are parallel to the slots and the blade.
Wouldn't work for those with a side table.
Chris
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I think the solution to everyone's concern would be to attach guides onto the sides of the top. These guides could be made parallel to the saw blade (and each other) by shimming. Sled runners would track on these guides rather than the saw top.
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It would be easier to just use runners in the miter slots.

blade
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In a wor, no. In order for the runner to fit the miter slots, they have to be cut to a very close tolerance. Going outside the saw top, the runners could be made ant sixe as long as they slide properly.

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In a wor, no. The runners can be slightly undersize of the slots. You just have to make sure that when you attach them to sled that each runner is forced toward the inside edge of the slot. Not that cutting the runners to the required tolerance is that hard to begin with...just takes some trial and error to dial in the right size.
todd

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Tue, Jun 6, 2006, 4:23am (EDT+4) snipped-for-privacy@ug.the.orc (SmaugIchorfang) doth claieth: In a wor, no. In order for the runner to fit the miter slots, they have to be cut to a very close tolerance. <snip>
Nah. They only need to have the inside edges straight. Mine were that way, and the outside edges didn't even marry up with the outside edges of the miter slots. Both straight edges ran right along the inside edges of the miter slots, worked fine.
JOAT Never confuse "Oh, I can't do this!" with "Oh, I've never done this!". - JOAT
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In a word, yes. Fitting a runner is easy enough for anybody with basic skill. The last crosscut sled I made took less than 45 minutes from raw wood to up and running. Compare that with attaching rails to the outside edges of the table (drill, tap, clamp, whatever), aligning them parallel to the blade (shim, adjust, measure, ect), then building the sled and having to line it up. If you were going to put new wheels on your car, would you get them to fit or install new hubs too?

to
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Fine. You win. Send the original poster a dozen.

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Tue, Jun 6, 2006, 9:22am (EDT+4) snipped-for-privacy@ug.the.orc (SmaugIchorfang) doth stateth: Fine. You win. Send the original poster a dozen.
Hey, he was replying to you, not me. I don't have problems making sled runners, or saw sleds. This one will be maybe number 4, 5, or 6, for me. I just decided to try something a bit different this time. After all, saw sleds ain't exactly rocket science.
JOAT Never confuse "Oh, I can't do this!" with "Oh, I've never done this!". - JOAT
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Tue, Jun 6, 2006, 1:11am (EDT+4) snipped-for-privacy@ug.the.orc (SmaugIchorfang) doth claimeth: I think the solution to everyone's concern would be to attach guides onto the sides of the top. These guides could be made parallel to the saw blade (and each other) by shimming. Sled runners would track on these guides rather than the saw top.
Guides on the sides of the top? I figure it'd be easier to just bolt a piece of pywood to the top, overlapping the sides, with the two parallel to the blade. Then a sled with "runners" that'd fit on the outside edges of the plywood rather than the table top.
However, you "could" bolt a strip of plywood on each side of the blade, NOT overlapping the top. As long as they wsere cut square, be very easy to make them parallel to the blade that way, even if the blade is way off alignment with the miter slots. But, as only the outside edges would need to be aligned with the blade, wouldn't even have to be cut square, as long as one edge on each as straight. I'll have to think on this one a bit, seems to have some interesting possibilities.
JOAT Never confuse "Oh, I can't do this!" with "Oh, I've never done this!". - JOAT
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JOAT,
Your idea assumes that both sides of the tablesaw are parallel and that the blade is parallel to sides. Normal alignment is to have the blade aligned parallel with the miter slot and then the fence aligned to the slot.
You may be lucky and your alignment may be parallel to one or both of the sides - give it a shot.
Bob S.
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On Sun, 04 Jun 2006 19:39:14 GMT, "rec.woodworking w/filter"

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but does it actually matter if the sides of the top are parallel to the blade so long as they are parallel to one another? As long as the sled rides smoothly, you could make a kerf cut before attaching the fence, and make sure the fence is perpendicular to that...
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To answer your question, imagine an extreme case where the edges of the top are at a 45 degree angle to the blade. Now hook up your sled push a piece of wood through. Not pretty. This isn't the same as having a mitre gauge set for 45, since the mitre slot (which is the directrion of travel) is still parallel to the blade. Any angle less than 45 degrees just produces the same result to a lesser degree.
todd
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I got ya, the kerf will be wider, kind of like a minimal crown-molding cove technique. I hadn't thought of that one.
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