Saw Sled Epiphany

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Because of changing needs, I've been needing to make a new saw sled. The old one would have worked, but would h ave been awkward, compared to a dedicaed sled. Besides, I tool the old one apart, to salvage a couple of pieces for the new sled. Some of you'll probably remember the old sled, the one painted yellow with ligtning bolts painted one it. Worked damn well too.
The new sled has lagged because it'll be for semi-production use, and will be a bit specialized. I've been trying to design someting that's a bit complex, but not over engineered. So, the design has been ever changing. Always workable, but never what I really wanted either.
Then yesterday I was in the shop, looked at a "quick fix" sorta mitre guage, and it instantly hit me what I'd been after. My jaw dropped and I asked myself, "Can it really be that simple?", and myself said, "Yup, seems to be.". It'll be a bit more complex then the "quick fix" rig Id made, but one Hell of a lot less complex than the other designs I'd been pondering. And, it'll work as well or better too. I proceeded to cut the runners, and a few spares, from 1/4" plywood - yeah, they'll work find, I've used such before. I can't tell you how I'll be makng it yet, because I haven'tl made it yet. The basic design is simple, and in my head, I won't be putting anything on paper. Later on I'll be making another, general use, sled, that'll have the gadgets and complexity that's so much fun to make and use. But, this one will be pretty much basic and simple.
I design things like this in my mind. In color even. It always kinda puzzles me when people say they can't do that. I think anyone can, if they just put their mind to it. I think it may be because of not reading enough. When I was a kid, we didn't h ave a TV until long after I was in the 7th grade, probably 9th or 10 anyway, but can't recall now. I'd always read, but lived near a bunch of kids until the 7th grade, when we moved. It was then I discovered the library system. The town we moved to had a small library. Jules Verne's 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea, ahh, read that, use your imagination to picture what everyone was doing. Now kids look at a tube, and all the imagining is done by someone else. I have the boob tub on most of the time, but as much for background noise as much as anything - but did just watch Lilo and Stitch, and am watching Buzz Lightyear now. You know, reality shows. LMAO
I probably won't paint this saw sled. But if I change my mind it'll be yellow. Minus the lightning bolts.
It's like Granny Weatherwax says, "It's not hard, if you get your mind right.".
Life is basically good.
JOAT To listen is an effort, and just to hear is no merit. A duck hears also. - Igor Stravinsky
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J T wrote:

I design in my mind also and work out problems sometime I get the answer while I sleep.
When you get yours done maybe you could post a picture or e-mail me one Thanks
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Tue, Jan 2, 2007, 1:12pm (EST-3) snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net (glen2pat) doth queryeth: <snip> When you get yours done maybe you could post a picture or e-mail me one
E-mail? Never happen. Post? Possibly so, but still working on taking pictures of my latest router table, the one that was finished weeks ago, so don't hold your breath.
JOAT To listen is an effort, and just to hear is no merit. A duck hears also. - Igor Stravinsky
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snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote in
*snip*

*snip*
For many people, something like this is a gift. It would be pretty difficult for someone without the ability to gain it just by sheer will power.
Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
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Wed, Jan 3, 2007, 3:56am (EST+5) snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Puckdropper) doth sayeth: For many people, something like this is a gift. It would be pretty difficult for someone without the ability to gain it just by sheer will power.
I still feel that more people could do it if the actually tried. I'd say start by relaxing in a comfortable chair, with quiet, and eyes closed, then just try to visualize whatever - I betcha those seme peole could visualize a nekkid woman easily enough. However, like I said, I think it could be because so many people were brought up watching TV, instead of reading - no using the imagination, soneone's already did the imagining for them. Hmm, maybe that's why so many people never find the instructions, or the 1-800 number, on the backs of the labels.
JOAT To listen is an effort, and just to hear is no merit. A duck hears also. - Igor Stravinsky
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"J T" wrote in message

You probably wouldn't know, being an old fart Luddite for the most part, but your remarks above EXACTLY illustrate the vast difference between the old computer games like "Pirate", when computers were used only by the technically literate, versus the graphics heavy crap made for the Dummies in the past ten years or so.
Those old computer games were all text based ... *you* supplied the graphics entirely in your mind/imagination.
It was a unique interactive experience.
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Wed, Jan 3, 2007, 6:33am (EST-1) snipped-for-privacy@nospam.com (Swingman) doth sayeth: You probably wouldn't know, being an old fart Luddite for the most part, but your remarks above EXACTLY illustrate the vast difference between the old computer games like "Pirate", when computers were used only by the technically literate, <snip>
Ha! Gotcha there. As unbelievable as it may sound, I have either played Pirage, or a game very similar. The times I did got to the treasure chest I always wound up blowing it before I could claim it. Turns out that ong ago, not so far away, in another life, I was a computer operator, most of it lead operator. Thatt left me with a deep distrust of programmers, and a Very firm conviction that most computer users, at least in a manufacturing environment, are complete computer idiots - and no imagination.
JOAT To listen is an effort, and just to hear is no merit. A duck hears also. - Igor Stravinsky
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On Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:42:25 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote:

Well, it's possible- but everyone's mind works differently. I don't believe I've ever visualized anything in color, but I can keep track of a thing or two if I really put my mind to it. Much easier for me to use paper, though. OTHO, I can remember almost anything related to sound, and can playback most things I've ever heard in my head- it's a handy thing to lean on when it comes time to remember something.
That being said, I don't think I'd claim that everyone can do that- I used to think that people were just being lazy when they didn't understand things, but it's become more and more clear to me over time that that is not always the case. Anyone can improve themself to some degree, but there will always be something that is out of reach for each of us, no matter how hard we try for it. What irritates me are the people who are obviously capable of more, but are willfully ignorant.

I can't agree enough with the idea that not only kids, but adults are no longer reading enough- though for slightly different reasons. It's been my experience that television and other forms of multimedia are restricted in what they can realistically convey- while watching a movie will give a person a broad idea about a topic, reading the book that movie was based on will fill in thousands of gaps that the average viewer will never know were there to be filled. Especially when it comes to internal dialogue and supplimental information, a book beats a moving picture hands down for me.
But simply having television availible isn't the difference- I grew up in a house that had at least two televisions running at all times. Those suckers were the first thing on in the morning, and the last things to be shut off at night. If you can believe it, that's how I learned to read in the first place (Sesame Street.)
I still read plenty of books, perhaps more than you'd believe if I told you, and certainly more than I could accurately count. I still own a TV, and watch it from time to time, but I limit my use of it to Sunday afternoons only- more than that, and it is just stealing my already insufficient time from me. Even so, my ability to visualize things is far weaker than other faculties... so I guess I'd have to say that I disagree with the notion that just anyone can develop a highly attuned ability to visualize things- though I congratulate you on your ability to do it. That's a rare and useful talent.
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Wed, Jan 3, 2007, 7:44am (EST-1) snipped-for-privacy@NOSPAMcharter.net (Prometheus) doth sayeth: Well, it's possible- but everyone's mind works differently. <snip of the rest in the interest of brevity>
Ah yes, what I "should" have said, what I meant, was that I think "most" people, say at least over 50%, could do it, which I do believe would be possible. I really try hard not to make flat statements like I did, but at times do anyway - because I believe few things are just black or just white, but different shades of gray. As for color, I understand a lot of people don't dream, or visualize, in color - I always have.
Well, if I want to keep track of someting for a long time, paper is the prefrred method. Saves the problem of thinking. Then all you need to know is where you stored the paper. Sometims not thinking is good.
I've heard kids say they "can't" do, or "arent good", or "can't remember", math, English, or anything else to do with school. But at the same time they can remember perfectly 100 or so so-called songs, or rap, or whatever. I figure it's becuse they don't want to remember the school stuff and do want to remember the crap. My older son was having a LOT of problems with match when he was a kid. Because of all the numbers. I told him he didn't have to remember any numbers excpt 0 to 9. Spent a few minutes with him on that and, while he never turned out to be another Einstein, he stopped having problems with math. I took an accounting course once. I knew the theory, but the instructor just kept confusing me. Then 6 months along, the instructor said one or two sentences that everything clear to me. If he'd said that on the first day I'd never have had any problem. As it was, it was too llittle too late, and I failed the course.
So many of the college grads I've met don't read more than the sports section. They figure they've got their paper, they don't need to learn more. I figure a good part of them cheaed to get that paper, judging from their knowledge.
Offhand, I can't recall any movie "based on a true story" that came what I'd term "reasonably close" to the real facts. Few of the movies based on a book are close to the book either.
At one point in my life I was a speed reader - read every wood, didn't skip over like a lot of speed readers do, just read very fast - could read up to four paperback books in a day, and often did. Now I am still a voracious reader, but have slowed down on the reading speed - partly to better absorb the material, but also partly to cut down on the cost of my reading. I used to read a LOT of sci-fi - long ago, and single, I'd usually spend from $100-$300 a month on books. Now I've pretty much stopped reading sci-fi, but do read, and reread, Terry Pratchett's Discworld series, that's about the only non-fiction I ead anymore.. Most of my reading is automotive related, or woodworking, including wooden boats. Along with steam, firearms, and basically anything else that interests me that is non-fiction. You want some "insteresting" reading, pickup a forensic paology book, complete with color pictures. Urrghh. I just missed out on a two volume set of books on eBay - shoulda don't more homework on the price - and ordered three other books on-line within the last 3 days, and expect to get another off of eBay today.
I hope to be able to start on making some cases for myself soon. I'll be making measurements, but the exteriors will be identical, only the interiors will be different - so there'll be no sketches, I'll just work out the interiors as I go along. I'd hink that if people can't visualize like I can, that some rough sketches would be the equivalent. A lot of people won't even try that.
JOAT To listen is an effort, and just to hear is no merit. A duck hears also. - Igor Stravinsky
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snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote, among other things, in

I make the sketches so I can write down the numbers I THINK I remember, but often don't get exactly right. How it's supposed to look, and work, and fit together, I can make that happen faster than I can draw it accurately.
This visualization you describe is a talent more rare than I think you give it credit for. Clearly the ones who have it are in the minority, at least among many of the folks I know. The ones who can make it fit with their lives, and hobbies, have done well.
We all have different areas around which we adjust.
BTW, thanks for your musings. They get my thought stream in gear.
Patriarch
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Wed, Jan 3, 2007, 5:44pm (EST-1) snipped-for-privacy@nospam.comcast.net (Patriarch) doth sayeth: I make the sketches so I can write down the numbers I THINK I remember, but often don't get exactly right. How it's supposed to look, and work, and fit together, I can make that happen faster than I can draw it accurately. This visualization you describe is a talent more rare than I think you give it credit for. Clearly the ones who have it are in the minority, at least among many of the folks I know. The ones who can make it fit with their lives, and hobbies, have done well. We all have different areas around which we adjust. BTW, thanks for your musings. They get my thought stream in gear.
Sketches are goo, and measurements are better. Sometimes I make something, winging it all the way, and just hold a piece in place, marke it, chut, and put it in place, no measuring at all. Other times I measure up the wazoo, writing it all down, somethimes with a sketch(s), sometimes not. When you write the stuff down, you don't have to remember. I figure you don't need an accurate sketch, just accurate measurements.
Maybe visualizing is rarer than I thought, but I still feel more people could do it. Or maybe they just call it something else. Some of you guys who say they can do it, try this: Get a book, with pictures of something you'd love to own/build, but maybe you never will, a huge sailboat, yacht, mansion, something along those lines, preferably with plans, or details about how it was built - drool over the pictures, and think what changes you'd make - do this for a few weeks, and then ask yourself if you are "visualizing". Betcha at least a few of you can that couldn't before.. I've got a boat project I've been lanning for years, but no space to do the work - but I've got almost the whole thing planned out in my mind, without a single measurement yet - based solely on one page study plans of about three different boats, and a picture of another. One day, hopefully. I won't go into any details on my car project, IF I can ever get the space to start on that.
Got to have some way to get you old guys to thinking. LOL
JOAT To listen is an effort, and just to hear is no merit. A duck hears also. - Igor Stravinsky
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On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 13:27:05 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote:

That could certainly be true- I know that there are at least photographic and eidetic mental types, and probably some sort of empathetic type as well. I'd imagine everyone has at least one sense that is strong enough to use as a cudgel on most problems (the more gifted having faculties more akin to a scalpel, of course)

In most cases, that's undoubtedly true. It'd be nice if more teachers would try and play to that by teaching young folks to associate useful information with some of the less useful stuff they tend to fill their heads with. It's a damn shame that by the time most folks realise all those things that they didn't want to remember would have come in really handy later in life, it's much harder to learn than it would have been had they kept hold of it in childhood.

Ahhh.... the old math gripe. I could never understand why, when I was in school- and more recently, when my wife took her voc. school math class- they always teach the methods in the same impossibly convoluted way. By the time you slog through the most difficult way to solve a simple problem a hundred times or so, all it does it piss the students off when they finally reveal the simple method. When I was tutoring her, I just made a point of making her flip a chapter ahead in the book, and use the easy formulas to solve the problems.

The internet is a wonderful thing for saving money on books. Most of what I read are classics that are in the public domain, and the project Gutenberg site is a thing of beauty for that. For a while, I had a Palm PDA with a backlit screen that would hold about 120 full books, and I carried that everywhere with me until the battery finally gave out. It's a damn shame that those seem to be a dead or dying breed- I haven't managed to find a replacement that is half as good as the one I used to have for any reasonable price, so it is still unreplaced.

Never read those, but I like rereading the Dune books from time to time. The other big ones for repeated readings are the works of Hesse and Rand, and Clavell's Asian Saga. Most other stuff I read once and that's plenty.

Libraries and used bookstores are good places to check as well, though I expect you know that already. It's kind of sad when you see some of the stuff libraries get rid of on a regular basis- I got a four volume set a few years ago that contained every work that had won the Nobel prize for literature from it's inception until 1980 for $5. They pulled it and sold it due to lack of interest among the patrons- same goes for Euclid's Elements and a number of other classic works that should never be excluded from a good library, no matter how long they sit on the shelf unread.
I think I'll skip the pathology, though. My interests tend more towards philosophy than guts.

Doesn't always even require sketches- I do a lot of seat-of-the-pants work, and keeping track of the measurements without a mental picture does me fine.
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Isn't that often the case? I remember when I bought my mother a VCR. I went over with a few movies and spent several hours trying to show her how simple the onscreen programming was. The VCR sat unused for the next six months because she said it was too hard to use. Fast forward to Christmas when I bought her a microwave oven. It had three levels of programming capabilities with an assortment of additional menus. Two days later when I went to see her to try and walk her through the instructions for the microwave, she'd already read the manual and had all the operating functions memorized. I sat there and watched as she proudly cooked a cake in the thing. I didn't mention the VCR for fear the cake would have been shoved in my face.
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My wife refuses to read instructions unless she absolutely has to. That is my job.
But the one thing she just can not figure out how to do is to put batteries into something. Flashlights, she can do. Almost anything else, from the TV remote to a cell phone, is my job. She will dump the dead electronic device in my lap with a fresh battery. My duty, as of that point, is very clear.
I am the official battery changer in the family.
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"Prometheus" wrote

If you are a Frank Herbert fan, you should pick up a copy of The Dosadi Experiment. I consider it to be his best work. Very different from his other works. Complex and very interesting. Herbert was a thinker.
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On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 02:39:00 -0500, "Lee Michaels"

Will do- thanks for the suggestion!
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wrote:

I should also mention that the main character (McKie) in The Dosadi Experiment was introduced in a previous work called The Whipping Star. Although an interesting book, it pales to a more epic The Dosadi Experiment. Kind of a prequel.
But if you like The Dosadi Experiment, you will probably pick up a copy of The Whipping Star to get the back story. It makes a few things clearer in the subsequent work.
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Wed, Jan 3, 2007, 11:38pm (EST-1) snipped-for-privacy@NOSPAMcharter.net (Prometheus) doth sayeth: That could certainly be true- I know that there are at least photographic and eidetic mental types,<snip>
It'd be nice if more teachers would try and play to that by teaching young folks to associate useful information with some of the less useful stuff they tend to fill their heads with. <snip
Ahhh.... the old math gripe. <snip>
The internet is a wonderful thing for saving money on books. <snip> I had a Palm PDA <snip>
Never read those, but I like rereading the Dune books from time to time. <snip
Libraries and used bookstores are good <snip> I think I'll skip the pathology, though. My interests tend more towards philosophy than guts.
Doesn't always even require sketches- I do a lot of seat-of-the-pants work, and keeping track of the measurements without a mental picture does me fine.
I think it all depends on what you're thinking about. If you're thinking about kekkid wimmen, i't probably is more than mere thoughts, it's pictures too.
I consider the local school system took more effort pushing my younger son thru the cracks then they did teaching him.
I ran into "new match" once. I'm fairly intelligent, but there was now way I coulld even begin to understand that crap - it just did not meake sense at all. Hard to believe that someone actually thought that was a good idea.
Gods above, I've got all sort of links saved to sites with literature on-line. But, as nice as that much reading is to have on hand, there's nothing quite like holding printed words in hand. Just one of the reasons I like books so much.
If you can't find a suitable replacement battery for your Palm PDA (I have no idea what the Hell that would be) you could always do like my kids did in that situation. Get appropriate power battery(s), use wires to connect to the appropriate power plug, and tape the battery to the outside. You could even use a car battery that way. LMAO
Watching the Dune movie spoiled the books for me. The movie probably would have been fine if I'd seen it first, but having read the books, and getting images in my mind, the movie version just plain sucked, big-time.
Libraries are good, but I've never found anything I really liked in their sales. Love used bookstores. I do a pretty fair amount of cruising on-line for used books too. Thrift stores are worth checking too.
Oh yeah, you should check a forensic pathology book. No guts as I recall, but that would have been welcome compared to some of the pictures - in color no less.
Seat-of-the-pants stuff is always fun because you don't need mearements.
JOAT To listen is an effort, and just to hear is no merit. A duck hears also. - Igor Stravinsky
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On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:38:34 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote:

Already tossed it- putting a plug or external battery on it would have defeated the purpose. (Which was that it was a little computer with a screen about the size of a pack of cigarettes that had a backlight for using it in the dark and a hard cover that would fit in my pocket. Took a little getting used to reading tiny little words on a lit-up screen, but being able to carry a library in the pocket of my jeans was worth the effort.)

I'm assuming you mean the Lynch one from the 80's and yes, it did suck. The Sci-Fi channel made a version of it a couple of years ago, and that was much better, though extremely long.
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<snip>

<snip>
You know - once you build it, you really should make a plan web accessible....
There are people out there who look for, and promote links to, plans like that....
;)
Cheers -
Rob
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