Sanding Sealer Dries Instantly


In an effort to get a perfectly smooth painted (latex) finish on a door, I applied a water-based sanding sealer (Olympic) prior to painting. The stuff dried within seconds of being applied, at least enough to prevent it from leveling. Trying to sand it level brought me back to bare wood on most of the door.
Multiple coats did result in a beautifully smooth finish on most of the door, but there were still some ripples and rough areas that seemed to emanate from the very first coat.
After sanding back to bare wood, I'm reluctant to try this stuff again, but I'm thinking it would level quite a bit better if I could slow the dry time. Will Floetrol help?
Thanks for any thoughts.
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mix it with a retarder, most sealers have thinners and retarders ,the latter to extend the drying times
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<<mix it with a retarder, most sealers have thinners and retarders ,the latter to extend the drying times >>
I see nothing on the Olympic web page about the availability of a retarder. I'll ask at Lowes. Thanks.
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Why'd you apply the sanding sealer? Tom
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<<Why'd you apply the sanding sealer? Tom>>
As I applied multiple coats of my top coat to hide the wood grain, the surface displayed more and more orange peel, in spite of sanding between coats. Since latex doesn't sand well, I was hoping this might offer a solution.
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On 1 Dec 2005 22:21:26 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@boundvortex.com wrote:

I use BIN (pigmented) or Seal Coat (clear) under just about anything, including latex. Neither has ever let me down, and having to keep only two products around simplifies many jobs. Both are excellent to sand, work in a wide temperature range, are inexpensive and easy to obtain.
Since they're shellac based, you don't even have to clean the brush, if you dedicate them! <G> Simply drop the brush in alcohol before use to soften it up, and off you go. I also keep spray bombs of BIN and Zinnser clear around for small quicky jobs.
Barry
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<<I use BIN (pigmented) or Seal Coat (clear) under just about anything, including latex.>>
I'll take a closer look at these. I like the idea of a silver bullet. :-)
Thank you.
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On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 08:01:18 -0800, gesres wrote:

I haven't used the BIN, but I too swear by Sealcoat. I even use it as my shellac finish. Takes a few more coats since it's a one pound mix, but goes on flatter.
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On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 08:51:26 -0800, Larry Blanchard

Sealcoat is a 2 lb. cut.
<http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductIdr
Barry
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Have read that Zinsser doesn't recommend Seal Coat as top coat/final finish. Have NOT read why not.
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 08:51:26 -0800, Larry Blanchard

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snipped-for-privacy@boundvortex.com wrote:

So when/if you get a perfectly smooth surface, how are you going to get <ugh> latex on perfectly smooth? Not with a brush or roller, probablynot sprayed either.
-- dadiOH ____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
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In addition, yer younglings will bang that perfect surface up soon enough. j/k
First off, I assume you are NOT prim/painting the thing while it's hanging. Get it on some horses. Priming is a must for fresh wood. Never used sanding sealer myself. As previously suggested use a shellac product, get at least 2 coats Seal Coats on er. SAND WITH DEAD FLAT BLOCK 220. Apply another coat SC. Sand with block 320. Add a good bit of Flowtrol to yer latex and apply 2-3 coats paint sanding LIGHTLY between coats w/320 and block. Totally pro look yet will still reveals tasteful brush marks which resemble a grain pattern assuming you know how to brush a door the RIGHT WAY. If not DAGS. Good luck!!!
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<<n addition, yer younglings will bang that perfect surface up soon enough. >>
No younglings! :-)
<<Get it on some horses. >>
Been on horses for about two weeks. <sigh>
<<Priming is a must for fresh wood.>>
It was actually stained, but didn't seem to have any finish on it. Regardless, I used Zinser's BullsEye 123.
I will try your suggestions. I had not used greater than 220 on the sanding, but I did have Floetrol added to the primer and topcoat.
Thank you!
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<<So when/if you get a perfectly smooth surface, how are you going to get <ugh> latex on perfectly smooth? Not with a brush or roller, probablynot sprayed either.>>
Well, I had hopes. :-) Lots of articles in the archives where people promised that using the foam rollers would provide a glass-like finish. I'm beginning to think that must only be true with oil paint.
Actually, my first coat is pretty darn smooth, just too thin. After a couple of coats, it's no longer smooth.
I have one place on my wall where I applied a skim coat of joint compound and the paint is very smooth, so it seemed plausible that the smoother the original surface, the more likely the paint would be smooth. However, it may be true that a coat of latex paint doesn't provide the ideal surface for another coat to level.
If these experiments convert me to oil paint for some applications, then at least I'll go into it knowing where the real limits of latex are.
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FWIW . . .
I grew up with oil fired 'Hot Water Radiator' heating. We were ALWAYS doing something to the house and basement was storage/shop/playroom,etc. There were no 'water based' finishes.
'Fast Forward' about 30 years. A few years after I got married we bought a house . . . with 'Gas Fired Hot Air' heating, etc. Needless to say . . . my 'skills' were to be applied. When I used the OIL based finishes I was familiar with, the entire house developed a subtle, odd odor. My wife, the chemist identified it . . . "burned hydrocarbons". From the few molecules that got into the air and came in contact with the tiny 'pilot lights' in the rangetop and water heater!! So began my research into 'Water-Based, 100% Acrylic, . . . etc' finishes. And a frustrating time it has been !!
My last 'adventure' was finishing a wooden replica of a 17th Centry ships anchor. It took about 3 months and about 12 coats of grey primer and black finish coat. The basic problem was that when I did the 'between coats' sanding . . . the 'coat' would peel off !! Even after 72 hours of 'drying' in a 'room temp' environment. {and with different concentrations of Flotrol}. I finally called the paint manufacturer . . . and pushed through untill I got directly to the Technical Lab.
It turns out that the 'Acrylics' need a LONG 'cure time' . . . 14 DAYS {or longer, depending on the temperature & humidity of the environment}!! This is similar to the epoxy I work with - but they only need about 72hrs for a 'working cure'.
In your case I would do a few experiments. Take a piece of '1x6' paint it one side with the primer. Then {starting at 3 days} sand a 6 to 8inch section, then sand another section the next day, etc., etc., untill the board is 'filled'. Then put on a topcoat and repeat. To be exact . . . follow whatever sequence you on your door, etc. While this may take time, you will then KNOW, EXACTLY what WORKS for YOU. Take notes, and you will be able to repaat the results . . . every time. Even though you may find variations . . . in you change brands, if the manufacturer changes formulations, etc. . . . you'll know WHERE to start for that specific combination.
Regards & Good Luck, Ron Magen Backyard Boatshop
{PS: Get used to it . . . petroleium-based finishes are getting slowey pushed or legislated out of the market}

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<<In your case I would do a few experiments. >>
Ron, I like your approach. Acquiring first-hand knowledge is always better than just doing something you read about somewhere.
Thanks for your suggestions!
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Thu, Dec 1, 2005, 10:21pm (EST-3) snipped-for-privacy@boundvortex.com burbled: <snip> Thanks for any thoughts. Here's a thought. Hold the can up in front of your face, at eye level, with the front of the can facing you. Very slowly, and very carefully, turn the can around so the back of the can is facing you. Slowly read the words of wisdom thereon, from the manufacturer; repeat as needed. If that doesn't help, there should be a 1-800 number somewhere on the label. That number is there so you can call the manufaturer and ask your questions. At this point, you set the can down, with the front facing in the direction of your choice. Then you call the 1-800 number, on the telephone, and ask your question(s). No prob.
JOAT A rolling stone gathers no moss...unless it's a hobby he does on the weekends.
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