Sand in glue

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Does anyone here use the trick of adding sand to glue to reduce slippage? If you do, is it effective enough for you, or does it barely make a difference? I had such a hard time when gluing up 9 pieces of a lamination, I ended up doing the piece over. The next time, I took each piece to the DP and drilled holes for dowels. The first lamination was gonna get milled and stupid me had used a finish nailer every 3 pieces, forgetting that I'd be running the completed lamination through a dado. Besides which, with the glue causing slippage, each time I squeezed the trigger, the pieces would move slightly. Not a good method.
When a glue-up must not slip is sand not completely up to the task? How about for laminations?
Dave
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David wrote:

Never even heard of it....can't imagine how one could have anything w/ enough grit to be effective and get the joint to close, nor if the pieces are able to move, what would keep the grit from simply moving as well since it's essentially floating in the glue film...
...

I would make every effort to
a. Make the piece such that final milling is done after glue-up,
b. a. being impossible, create a jig to hold the pieces.
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Depending on the form of the piece you could: - Use biscuits - Make the pieces longer than needed and cut of the slipped ends later - Clamp end blocks across the table and drop the pieces in between them - Use less glue and let it dry for a few minutes before putting the pieces together. Probably the best/easiest fix.
I've never heard of using sand. Can't imagine I'd want to introduce anything like that into a joint.
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on 6/21/2005 4:31 PM SonomaProducts.com said the following:

Read it here on the rec recently. I believe the trick is to sprinkle just a few grains into the joint. Once the joint closes up those few grain puncture the otherwise smooth surface of the glue joint and prevent movement as the pressure is applied. The plan sounded logical to me when I read it here but will admit that I've not yet tried it.
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Never tried it myself but have known several people that use it all the time. Works great according to them. Wouldn't want to plane the joint afterwards though.

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I was expecting that if sand works, I'd sprinkle it in the middle of the joint away from the edges. I'd only consider it for face gluing where slippage is such a bear. For gluing up panels, I don't have a slippage problem--I'm using biscuits and or cauls.
Dave
CW wrote:

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If you can get sand (and glue for that matter) to only stay in the middle of the joint, I'd say you have enough control to keep things from slipping. :-)

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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As I wrote that, I thought it sounds like a fussy procedure.
Dave
Mark & Juanita wrote:

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Think snug on all clamps, then tight. Even the quick-clamps apply enough gentle pressure to reduce creep prior to torquing the big boys.
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Sounds logical to me. The clamping pressure will bury the few grains and stop the whole mess from sliding around. But you know how it is around here..say sand, and they're thinking a whole sandbox..mixing glue with sand, making some kind of concoction that Johnny Hart's Wizard would be proud of. ONE grain of sand. One grain... coming up:
http://www.latsi.com/latsipix/wizard-of-id.jpg
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Robatoy wrote: ...

Seems to me (again I haven't actually tried it) that if the piece wants to move since the sand is in the glue film, it would be quite likely it will simply move along with it first, before it sticks. Guess if there were a flat starting point you could avoid that, but in that case you would likely be able to hold it with simply the clamping pressure anyway.
Just way I thought about it...
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Why would U want to sprinkle sand into the joint? Sounds ridiculous to me. What I do is sprinkle saw dust from the type wood I am using into the glue joint and after it dries sand off and it hides it.

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I can see you mis-understood the issue! We are talking about face gluing (esp for lams) to prevent slippage. NOT for putting sand that would run all over the edges
Dave
Dave wrote:

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I agree, cutting a dado through nails is not a good idea. I've never tried cutting one through glued sand, but I have a feeling that might not be a good idea also. Sam
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I agree that for the project I was laminating and dadoing, I wouldn't want sand in the glue. That Freud dado is tres expensive!
Since no one here so far has tried it, when I get a chance I'll glue some scrap with Titebond and sand, and give a brief report.
Dave
Sam wrote:

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sand is as big a no-no for saw blades as nails.
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I agree; please see my response to Sam.
snipped-for-privacy@all.costs wrote:

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snipped-for-privacy@all.costs wrote: ...

Well, that's stretching it for the subject case...
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Try salt - a tip I found in the "Glue Book" that seems to work great. Craig

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David wrote:
<snip a sad tale of glue slippage>
Do the glue up with say a max of three (3) laminations.
When cured, laminate a max of 3 laminations together which provides a total of 9 layers.
Use epoxy and let cure at least 48-72 hours in the clamps.
Been there, done that.
BTW, forget sand in the glue, does nothing but make a sandy, weak, joint.
Lew
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