How hard is this finish compared to just a straight polyurethane? I love this stuff and I'm using it on my latest project but I'm not sure if I need a topcoat of straight poly to enhance durability (it's a bench that will have bags and what not placed on it)
Certainly it is softer than poly. Just curious why you love it, and why you would put it under poly.
finish compared to just a straight polyurethane? I
Good question :) It's pretty much the only finish I've used and has given me great results each time I've used it. It enhances the color of the wood, makes it feel silky smooth and gives it a lot of depth. I figured just using straight poly wouldn't pop the grain of the walnut & birdseye maple as much as first using the oil/poly mix and then using a protective coat of poly. Bad idea?
Yes. Poly/oil leaves a soft film; which you probably don't want under poly. On some woods (butternut for instance) I use Linseed Oil under poly. Since oil doesn't leave any film, it doesn't do any harm.
Walnut would probably be a bit darker with oil then poly, but I doubt you would see any difference from just poly on maple.
No comparison, IME ... it is a rather soft finish, even with many built up layers, and not all that durable.
I also love it, and it is generally my first choice on things of which I am most proud. Those pieces that deserve the kind of care that it will take in the future to keep the luster and finish up to par.
It is that kind of finish, relatively soft, not very durable, but one worthy of a great deal of respect to my estimation, and not something I would want to put a layer of straight poly on, although poly is one of the ingredients of the finish.
That said, I've often wondered what doing that would result in (maybe even shellac instead of poly), but thus far have resisted the temptation for the above reasons, so let us know how it turns out if you do decide to go that route. ;)
Urethane is a resin. It is mixed with an oil vehicle in greater or lesser proportions to harden the finish. If Sam's is a long-oil varnish, which the advertising seems to indicate, it will give a more flexible, though softer film than a short-oil/urethane varnish. You can put oils over oils with impunity, though they want a mechanical bond you create with sanding.
Since oil is the vehicle in any oil-based (poly)urethane, it's only a matter of oil color which would make a difference in the tone of your walnut. Minwax seems to be soy, which is lighter than linseed.
Curses :) I was hoping not to be a guinea pig...Time to do some tests... Is there anything else anyone could recommend to promote durability while retaining the good looks and silky smooth feel?
Here are some pics of the project so far
Sure - I'd probably vote for some type of varnish or polyurethane that's well-rubbed with 0000 steel wool. Or wet-sanded with 600 grit wet-dry paper. The project looks great so far! Andy
Why would you want to? What effect are you trying to obtain?
Minwax is soy? Could be... The current gloss poly is pretty clear.
Varathane advertises that they use soy and are clearer than the rest. I always thought they meant Minwax, but I've been wrong before.
George, what are your thoughts on using shellac on a well cured finish of the Sam Maloof type?
I've heard both yes and no, but have never personally tried it.
Thanks ..
Exactly :) I have a piece in the shop right now with it's first test coat of poly. I'll keep you posted :)
Why, indeed ... re-read the original post.
This particular finishing method/technique imparts a unique luster/patina to the wood that, thus far in my experience, can only be obtained by handrubbing the oil/poly finish with loving care, then following up with the oil/poly/wax mixture ... probably one of the reasons why Sam chose to use it so often.
Keeping that fresh "hand rubbed" look is a "once a week for a month, once a month for a year, once a year forever" proposition.
Despite the fact that the finish should match the intended use, vis a vis durability, is it any wonder that someone would reasonably want to at least explore the possibilities of a seal coat that keep the look, but result in a bit more durability/less work?
Count me, as well as Damian, in that category ... ;)
As I said, I have historically resisted the temptation for reasons already stated, but wonder nonetheless.
Maybe it's time to do a little experimentation .. right, Damian? ;)
Not after you put poly on top of it!
the Sam Maloof type?
Are you now talking about the original he uses on the chairs? This is the stuff with wax, or are you talking about his long oil line?
I'd bet on the long oil there would be no problems. But if you did the one-two punch and put the beeswax stuff on top as additional finish, that would be something I wouldn't be a project on.
I'd bet that the key is how much beeswax there actually is in the product. The beeswax mix seems to stay pretty soft, making me thing that there is plenty in it to do some damage to a subsequent finishing attempt.
I refinished a table top that had candle wax dripped on it, and cleaned it with naptha. I could still see the wax, but not much. I brused some blond dewaxed on it and it held on. I was never sure though.. not 100% anyway as to whether the shellac just "bridged" the droplets or if it actually adhered.
It seemed to adhere, and the finish that went over it went on fine as well. But I would sure go the route you guys are though, and try it out first on a piece of similar wood.
Robert
I don't use it on things subject to a lot of knocks. Lots of turnings, shelves, things like that, but nothing big. Not sure why it wouldn't do, I just don't.
You might run into a problem with adhesion if there's a full surface finish already.
Someone over on the FineWoodworking boards brought up the point that Maloof uses this finish on his chairs which I'd imagine would get about as much abuse as I expect this bench to get (i.e sat on every now and then and bags placed on) so perhaps the finish would be fine as it stands. Thoughts?
The original is simply an oil/poly mixture, hand rubbed with multiple coats.
The oil/poly/wax mixture is considered an extra, final step (or an ongoing future application to refresh the finish), which would not be necessary if a seal coat, like shellac, could be applied.
I've never had the need to apply a seal coat on top of the oil/poly finish (and it may never even come up), but have always been curious as to whether it would work?
That's the question.
I would suspect that is the case also ... but that step could be left out with no detriment to the oil/poly finish.
That's certainly the prudent way to find out. I have never had the opportunity to find out, but, it would nice to know if the need arose.
Thanks, Robert.
Now that's what I like to hear. Think I'll skip that poly coat after all and leave it as is. How many coats of the oil/poly do you typically use (and thanks to everyone for all the feedback, much appreciated)
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