Runny TiteBond III vs II (with pictures)

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On 08/13/2016 4:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: ...

...
I don't think there's anything wrong with it performance-wise, I'm still amazed how much reconstitution seemed to occur in the jug here simply from the inversion overnight. I've not gone back to look after it's sat again a few days now...
While it's surely a pit*proverbial*a*ppendage* to actually stir in any of the containers, it'd seem that should be the "gar-on-teed" way to extend the useful life...
I'd gone thru an previous gallon during the barn project, but that went back 15 yr ago or so and apparently it was used quickly enough so never saw the symptoms before mentioned here to go check the now-getting-dated current...
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On Sat, 13 Aug 2016 14:06:04 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03

Looks like the glue did its job.
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On Saturday, August 13, 2016 at 7:33:35 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:

Tru Dat!
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On 08/11/2016 2:01 PM, dpb wrote: ...

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(*) The "experimental test setup" was to set the glued up piece on a pair of solid horses and whack it w/ a 10-lb sledge... :)
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On 8/12/2016 9:55 AM, dpb wrote:

That's a perfect test, much better than reading about it, even from the manufacturer who often will shorten life expectations for a myriad of reasons.
When I first started my cabinet shop, I was using all sorts of ridiculous fastening techniques when edge gluing boards. Full length splines, T&G, half lapped, even 3 foot all-threads through my butcher block work bench top.
Then I read somewhere (way before the internet existed) that the glue joints were stronger than the wood. I did a similar test as yours, and discovered they were right, and the joints would rip out chunks of wood rather than along a glue line.
From then on I've been happily gluing up wide boards from narrow boards with just a few clamps and glue. Never once had a failure in 40-50 years. I still have the workbench top with the all-threads bolts pretending to hold it together, and I smile every time I look at those bolts and the needless effort that went into putting them in.
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On 8/11/2016 1:49 PM, Jack wrote: Also, setting

Just noted I mis-stated that. The TB III open time seemed a good bit **more**, as in longer open time, appreciated by those of us moving slower in the time space continuum.
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On 8/12/16 7:15 AM, Jack wrote:

The extra open time is the primary reason I'll use TBIII over the others if water resistance is not an issue. The second reason is TBIII is slightly darker when dried, a better match for oak.
-BR
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On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 15:13:58 -0700, DerbyDad03 wrote:

That's my rationale as well. I use II most of the time, but if I have a project with a complex glue up, I switch to III.
Except for the times I get archaic and use hide glue :-).
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On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 6:54:25 PM UTC-4, Larry Blanchard wrote:

OK, Larry...
Since you were the one that started the "Titebond III" thread back in 2014, basically asking the exact same question that I just asked, what do you think of what I show in the images from post #2 of this thread?
Are you still finding the III to be a whole lot runnier than the II or do I have bad bottle?
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On 8/9/2016 4:02 PM, dpb wrote:

You are correct in your assumptions and about what you have read. BUT talking to the Franklin home office rep he says that bumping or shaking the glue will not restore the glue. It has to be stirred. The shaking as you mentioned is for restoring the glue to a more liquid state providing what you are shaking is not mostly the settled ingredient to extend open time. If the glue is too thin to begin with it has to be remixed by stiring. If you are stiring a partially used bottle it may be too late.
Just like TBIII fails real world water proof tests, they fail to say you need to stir and that the glue is not real world water proof. That would hinder sales of the product.
Their water proof classification by industry standards mentions nothing about being water proof in the analysis, only in the title of the classification. That may have changed but that is how it was shortly after TBIII was introduced and tested by a woodworking magazine. TBII actually tested better than TBIII in their tests when exposed to water.

Correct, when fresh out of the factory. Let TBIII sit on the shelf for a year or so and the and the heavy ingredients in the bottle settle to the bottom and the top half becomes runny.

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On 8/9/2016 1:50 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

According to Franklin/TiteBond the TBIII and the Extend have an additive that settles to the bottom of the bottle. When it settles the glue is thinner. I had a gallon of Extend and it was runny too. Once just past half way through the gallon the glue was more like pudding.
They shipped me a replacement.

I make it a habit to reach to the back of the display of glue and if any has dust on it I pass. This stuff has a short shelf life because of the settling.
It is a shame that it is almost impossible to get these glues quickly after manufacture since placed like Woodcraft and HD buy in bulk.

NO! I have a relatively new quart of TBIII and it is relatively thick and Because of the additive that extends the open time it should be thick and not runny.
I am probably going to go back to TBII because of this. I prefer to buy in Gallons but that does me no good if I can't use the whole thing.

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On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:08:14 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:

Thanks. It did seem too runny even to me and I'm about as far from a glue expert as there can be. I also don't use enough glue to ever be able to use it up before it separates.
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On 8/9/2016 7:12 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

If my bottle is over 4~6 months old I buy new.
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On 08/09/2016 7:34 PM, Leon wrote: ...

OTOH, I've routinely kept gallon jug for year or more after a spate of heavy work that was then idle and it seems just fine...for the T's II and III. I've even thinned "plain ol'" yellow glue that has gotten a little thick and never had joint failures with it as long as it is still at least running...
Well, heck, let's just go look -- I'm pretty sure the TB III jug is downstairs not out in the barn...
Huh! Pulled out the plug that had formed in the top and lo! and behold! there was a later of water on the top and the bottom third is essentially all the solids...still good color all way through but it'll need to sit in the paint shaker it appears before use.
No date code I could decipher but it's probably 2 yr old since this one was purchased if my recollection is at all right...as 'spearmint I turned it over...we'll see if it'll improve any overnight.
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Current lot numbering system is a 10 digit code. The format is: aymmddbat#. The "a" stands for Made in the U.S.A. The "y" is the last digit of the year of manufacture. Digits "mm" represent the month, and "dd" represent the day of the month. The final four digits represent the batch number used for quality control purposes. Therefore, a product with the lot number A104270023 was manufactured on April 27, 2011.
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On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 9:04:19 PM UTC-4, Spalted Walt wrote:

If the date code on the bottle I just bought is what I think it is, the the bottle is no more than 196 days old.
I can't read the month, but the year appears to be 6 and the day 24. If it's this runny after a max shelf time of less than 7 months, they have a real problem with their product.
This link is safe. Copied/pasted. :-)
http://i.imgur.com/3BXcq49.jpg
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On 8/9/2016 9:42 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

You should email TiteBond. They usually respond quickly.
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On 8/9/2016 8:04 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:

And according to Franklyn April 27, 2011 is 3 years past prime condition. IIRC they suggest not using glue 2 years past the date code. and that is unfortunate because it is often hard to find glue in the store that is not already 6~12 months old, essentially cutting the useful period, for the end user, in half.
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Titebond is still using the same arbitrary date example (April 27, 2011) in their FAQ, http://www.titebond.com/frequently_asked_questions.aspx
, as you pointed out 3 yrs ago: http://www.homeownershub.com/woodworking/interesting-information-about-titebond-wood-glues-768392-.htm
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On 8/9/2016 7:47 PM, dpb wrote:

From what I understand the settled ingredient does not affect the strength of the glue. BUT that settlement is what extends the open time of the glue. If it settles out and it does not get mixed in the glue will have a shorter open time.
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