Ripping 1x4 to 1x3

[Lawrence Wasserman]

Sell the 1X4s and buy 1X3s.

[Lawrence Wasserman]

I'm thinking about the quality of the typical framing job here, and yeah, that would explain it...

>

[Chris]

Here?

I think it would be safe to say across the board. All framers = speed not quality.

Worse jobs we ever had was switching from framing to finish work. Something that would actually be seen.

I am now in a 2400sqft manufactured home. You could never tell from the outside. Almost 20 years old now. Not a squeak in the floor, crack in the drywall, everything plumb and level, and I could go on. Thing is as tight as a drum to boot. I use no heat upstairs (this is New England). In the summer I have a house fan running on hot days. With the fan running it is hard as heck to get the outside doors closed.

Comparing that to the 3000sqft super home done the street is a joke. 8 years newer with more squeaks and cracks. His heating bill is 6 times mine (I do burn wood though). He also has a hutch that is flush with the baseboard and leans 2" away from the wall at the top.

Factory homes have my approval. I have heard now that a factory home can fetch up to 7% more at appraisal time.

Chris

[Sam]

You could also turn your circle saw into a table saw in about 10 minutes. Drill some holes in the plateen. Plunge cut the saw through a piece of plywood. Unplug the saw. Screw the saw to the ply with 1 5/8 -

2" sheetrock screws. Wire or tape the saw trigger closed. Turn the works over and screw or clamp to some sawhorses. Break off the protruding sheetrock screws. Lay a straight edge, a 4' level works good, lightly against the sawblade and mark both ends on the plywood table, which will be 0". Measure from the marks whatever width cut you want, clamp a straight edge on the marks, a 4' level works good, plug in the saw and cut. Sam

[CW]

Not around here. They classify them as mobile homes, same as a trailer. Factory built, on site assembled houses are inherently superior quality but the builders around here have lobbied hard to have them classified as second rate.

[Chris]

Too bad. They are not all too common here in MA either. I know up in Maine and NH they are gaining popularity.

I bought this home from the previous owner. Addition going on too, so I will most likely be here for a while. If I built a home I sure would think seriously about a factory built. This house came from a factory in PA. Still not sure how it can work out to be cheaper as well, but the value is defiantly there.

I have had visitors who thought the house was new. Some did not believe it was a factory home. Had to take them down to the basement to show them where the chain marks were when they lifted the section.

Only draw back is the way the attic come out and the thicker center wall.

[Prometheus]

What kind of framers are you working with? We take a table saw, miter saw, band saw, a stable of levels and squares and a good builder's level to frame out additions. Might not always need it, but it's good to have in the cube van. Now, I'd agree with a lot of the stuff you mentioned, it can all be done with smaller power/hand tools- but I'd get really twitchy if I saw a guy framing something on my house without a level... then people wonder why none of the walls are plumb (DUH!)

[Chris]

Common framer knowledge. Strings and plumb bobs are way more accurate than any level (gravity never warps) . Or do you go down and level every stud in a 40' wall? That would scare me. Much better to plumb the corners and then stretch a sting across the top of the wall and sight the wall, adjusting the spring boards as needed. Way more accurate than placing a level on each stud, or a couple of places along the length of the wall. Old timer tip was to actually tip the wall out about 1/8 or less for an 8' wall. Gave the street the better illusion that the walls of the house were plumb.

Interior walls are another story and need a level only to confirm the measurements made.

Additions tend to be smaller so it might not apply.

[CW]

We have several very nice manufactured homes in the town that I live in. They are legal here as they allow mobile homes (there's relatively few of those here, however). Most places around here though, they are against zoning laws so, for the person wanting to have a new house built, they either have to build a conventional site built house or move out in the country were mobile homes are allowed. Years ago, when I first heard of manufactured homes, I thought that they would be a revelation in the housing market. Being all machine cut and jig built, they would not only be inherently better made, they would be cheaper due to production line techniques. The builders here had other plans though.

[Chris]

Am I hearing this right? Zoning not allowing factory built homes? Town I live in will not allow mobile, but allows factory built.

If this is the case, it sure does sound like local builders getting involved. In the interest of the town and the end-owner; what valid reason do they have?

[CW]

It's in the interest of the builders, period. Manufactured homes are classed as mobile homes here. You can only put them where a trailer would be legal.

[Mike Marlow]

That's bad. I'm not a fan of manufactured housing, but good lord, there is a world of difference between a modular home and a mobile home. BTW, I'm not a fan of manufactured housing for no good reason at all. Just stuck in my ways.

[Swingman]

CW, as usual, is getting his politics and Internet garnered widom mixed up with his outlook on life.

I belong to every builder's organization in this area and can say from firsthand knowledge that, at least in this neck of the woods, "builder's" have nothing to do with keeping out "manufactured" and modular designed homes. Consumers, local municipalities and their zoning ordnances/codes, and most importantly, LENDERS, would be at the top of my list in that regard.

Someone still has to put them together and any "builder" I know worthy of the classification would be glad to do that, as well as finish them out. AAMOF, our local builder's trade rag is full of ads for modular home construction, along with how to articles, tips and suggestions.

[Chris]

So there again lies the question; why would the consumers and cities/towns not want one. Not to start the blame game. I would be interested in hearing any reason as to why the consumer and the local municipalities along with zoning ordinances would not want a modular.

Lenders are out of the question as it has already been stated that a factory home can fetch up to 7% more at appraisal time. Lenders should not apply as they would be making a more sound investment.

I was a little hesitant at snapping this home up being a factory home, but the previous owners were wanting out real quick and I got a steal on the place. They actually had three offers the first day it listed. After being here for a few years, the pros of a factory home have surely turned me around.

As far as the town/city not wanting a factory home, I have a hard time finding any valid reason. If anything it would make it easier on them. They collect the same fees from the building permits, and surely have less work to do.

Thinking off the top of my head. It would not surprise me if some of the larger factories have a legal team to contest any zoning ordinances that do not allow factory homes. After all this country is somewhat a free one (getting less so everyday). If you wanted to get real picky, the town has less of an eyesore, less trash , and a cleaner jobsite (ever see what gets buried at a new home site).

The only problem that I can think of, is that there are some lesser quality factories out there spitting out homes that are not much more than a mobile home. Thus the reasoning.

[Swingman]

.

Good question ... to answer that, just go deal with any bureaucrat/bureaucracy that has anything to do with building issues. Resistance to, fear of, and not enough sense, to handle "change", or anything out of the ordinary is the driving force from my perspective, which is that of a "builder".

The preponderance of these folks are frozen with fear for their cushy, tax payer supported jobs and benefits, and want no part of anything that requires thought or action on their part. I happen to deal with them daily ... trust me when I tell you that "builder's" are the enemy, and unfortunately, rightfully so in many case.

Then throw in the myriad proliferation, to rival the IRC tax code, of the building codes across the country.

As for consumers ... go watch about ten minutes of TV to see where that collective IQ resides. Not to mention that Realtors, another pox on society, _tell_ folks what to buy, what not to buy, and exert a tremendous influence on both the price of housing, and rental rates in most areas.

[Mike Marlow]

That's a pretty accurate reflection of upstate NY as well. You hit the nail on the head with the caps above.

[Mike Marlow]

I have to question this statistic. This would appear to be something published by the manufactured housing industry and if so, that makes it suspicious all by itself. I've never seen a higher market for manufactured housing over stick built and I have to really question if that will ever be the case. All by itself, (if that statistic does have some legitimacy), it's meaningless. 7% more than what? To whom? Manufactured housing is almost always trimmed out with a lower grade of material (less fancy, lower quality, entry level stuff), than what a typical stick build is trimmed out with. I'm thinking of things like casings (most modulars are use paint grade trim since everything is painted white), carpets, appliances (if included), and the likes.

One can't throw a statistic out there and then say the lenders shouldn't respond to the market the way they do simply because this statistic is out there. The lenders represent a very significant portion of the reality that makes up the housing market.

[Chris]

This statistic came from an officer of the board of the appraisal unit of the second largest mortgage company in the US, who is very closely related. It is something that is already in place and seems to be somewhat accepted across the board.

I did not say it was an automatic 7%, it is an allowed max. Thus if the appraiser feels that it is justified than so be it. The increase comes from the consumer and the market itself and is not just made up by the appraiser. The conditions (i.e. people were more inclined to pay more) are what drove the appraisers to allow for such an adjustment. I am sure that this does not apply to across the board, nor does it apply to all homes. This is why they have appraisals, to determine the value. Just as a stick built could be built like crap, so could a factory home, so it is all in the actual home.

Appraisals are driven by the market, appraisers are only really estimating the homes value to what has already sold, local as possible. Appraisers use "comps", or three homes of equal specs that have sold locally. If they cannot find similar factory built homes to comp, they are allowed to adjust as they see accordingly, maybe -5% could be 7%, up to them really.

I also think that general location is another key that surely influences the result as well. A factory in PA for example is not going to ship a home to CA for obvious reasons. So the quality of the homes coming out of the local factories is surely a driving factor as well. The economically challenged areas are for sure not going to put out a factory home that can compete with a factory home in a well to do area. Thus the differences.

All oak trim and solid interior doors here. Granted it might not be the norm, but just as a stick built home can be spec'ed out with paint grade trim so can a factory built. The little experiences that I have with the factory built homes in this area seem to be spec'ed pretty much the same here. Again could very well the area that influences it. Heck mine even has two layers of plywood on the floors.

Thinking out loud,

Most stick built homes are built by smaller builders, 10 a year maybe. I would think that a factory spiting out a couple hundred or so (just general numbers as I have no support of them), would have more buying power, thus might be able to offer, say, oak trim, at a lower price than the local builder.

[Mike Marlow]

OK - I see what you are saying. Your original statement appeared to claim that modular held a 7% premium over stick built. Under the conditions you stipulate above, that same 7% statement could be made for any home. That's the nature of appraising.

[Chris]

Exactly, Sorry if I was misleading in the original comment.

The 7% just seems like a number that is now being allowed. Sure for any home it could be, after all an appraisal is just an opinion compared to what other similar homes have recently sold for. Just in the same fashion; if an appraiser had experience with a high quality local stick builder, he could adjust for that as well. Could go the other way as well and the appraiser knows that a particular factory built home is of poor quality. The trend is reflected that factory built in general seem to be of better quality than stick built. I am not saying this, the consumer who is driving the market is saying this. Thus the allowed adjustment.

I guess we could take it to the extreme and say that two exactly similar homes, one stick one factory, the appraisal is allowed to say, hey it is factory built so boom 7% more. I think that it would stem from the general overall quality that is afford at the factory. Work on a framing crew for a while, speed is the concern, not quality, unfortunately for most. A factory built can afford the speed at the same time, with increased quality, in general terms.

Architect that drew up the plans for our addition here mentioned the factory quality as well. One simple thing he mentioned was the house wrap (one of the reasons contributing to the insulation value of the home). His comment "Every drive by a house being built with the Tyvek (sp?) flapping in the wind?".

Using the experience that I echoed above with my factory home, would I pay

7% more for it if I could find a stick built the exact same? Hard to say. The experience that I have with this home would lead me to pay more, how much is the question.