Right AND Left Tilt Table Saw?

ISTR an ad several years ago for a tablesaw that tilted both left and right. It sticks out in my mind because I was just starting to enjoy creating sawdust in earnest and making useful items from the non-sawdust portions. ;-) For stationary power tools all I had was a Delta single speed scroll saw. I checked out a table saw book from my library & read it cover to cover. One section discussed (of course ;-) right vs. left tilt saws. One phrase sticks in my mind: "Some saws tilt left. Some tilt right. No table saws tilt both ways." Shortly thereafter I saw an ad for a saw that tilted both ways. It struck me because it was so different from the knowledge I'd recently gotten from the book. "Here is a saw that tilts both ways!" It was expensive so I requested no info from the manufacturer.
I bought a bench Delta 10" table saw and used it for a couple years. Eventually -- and it took quite awhile <g> -- I needed a TS with more capability and accuracy. (My inaccuracies were far greater than the limits of its direct-drive, marginal fence and small table size. <g>)
I upgraded to the bottom-of-the-line Grizzly contractor saw. It was heaven! With a good middle-cost blade I used the stock miter gage to cut a bunch of thin cutoffs from the end of a scrap pine 2"x4". They weren't quite thin enough to read through, but I did gather up samples and send them in snail mail to relatives. <g> In the letters I wrote, "This is what my new table saw can do. Notice how even and thin the 2x4" cutting is. If it's broken that happened after I dropped it in the mailbox. They were one piece when I put them in the envelope. For now the saw is much more accurate than I am. Someday, if my woodworking stills improve enough, I'd like to get a saw that is able to make cutoffs half as thick as these. You'd be able to read through them."
I used the Grizzly a lot. Initially I was completely satisfied with the stock fence. But my woodworking skills continued to improve and eventually the small, random difference of the clamping of back edge of the fence affected the cuts I was making. I bought a used "Shop Fox Original" fence on the internet, expecting it to be an upgrade in accuracy from the Grizzly stock fence. To make a long story short, IMO the Shop Fox Original fence doesn't work nearly as well as the ads would have you believe and I'd like to replace it. A good new fence is a major portion of the purchase of a new saw, so why not look for a good new or used saw? <G>
So I'm thinking of upgrading from a contractor TS to a "real" table saw, a 220v contractor saw. Which way do I want it to tilt? Both! If I'm cutting an angle from the left side, I want that doggone blade angled away from me. If I'm ripping an angled cut from the right side, I still want that blade angled away from me. I've had two TS kickback accidents. The first was completely my fault -- a cutoff I didn't bother to take off the table got into the blade and came spinning back. The second was (probably) also my fault and wouldn't have happened if I'd been using a splitter as wide as the blade. (The stock splitter is very thin and may not have prevented the kickback had it been installed.) The second kickback occurred on July 20, 2003 (I wrote the date on the ruined piece and keep it in the shop as a safety reminder.) The wood grazed my left hand as it spun off the TS and hit the freezer behind me. Standing there bleeding on the saw and the floor, I counted my fingers and was rejoicing to find 10 of them still attached to my hands. More than 3 months later my left hand still has scars from the accident. I hope the scars last another 100 years as a safety reminder.
I'd really like for the table saw blade to always be tilted away from me when making angled cuts. If I had the space a solution would be to have both a left and right tilt table saw. But in my single-car garage shop I don't have the space.
Do table saws that tilt to both left and right exist?
Thanks!
-- Mark
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You might be thinking of one that you could order with EITHER right or left tilt. Not BOTH. Both ways is pretty tough, as in one direction the arbor & pulley & arbor housing would have to tilt up into the table. Not much room there.
John Martin
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Mark:
I remember reading of a (cabinet type) saw at approximately the mid-eighties/early nineties but lost the article (in what, I don't remember either) before I could read it in more detail. Basically, all I got from it that I can remember was picture captions and scanned it in a cursory manor. As I recall from the drawings, the drive was accomplished via the motor (enclosed) hung below the trunions and tensioned the belt with it's weight - BUT - the motor/mandrel assy. was mounted at an angle of 50-55deg. (+/-) relative to the blade and drove the blade via a slender universal joint at the right side (relative the operator) of the blade which turned in what looked like a beefier variation of a bicycle's (rear) fork The entire assembly moved via the action of a bit heavier than most screw-shaft in a conventional manner. Blade height was accomplished likewise but the weight was dampened with a spring - similar in type to that on a screen door - (both ends had a short piece of chain, presumably for adjustments) connecting a cast-in loop on the table bottom in line with the trunion pivot points to a point on the motor support at the pulley-end. Thus enabling BOTH right AND left tilt, accommodating WHATEVER circumstances that might arise ! And so at virtually no additional cost of production - beyond the initial tooling - meaning 'they' would actually have to DO THAT and not merely use parts mix-matched from others as patterns or adaptations thereof.
Really, I thought it at least bordering on ingenious !
I can't help wondering why no one has filled this obvious need before!? I just might have looked into it if I had the capital and sufficient hours in the day. Given the related 'Subject Line' traffic on the R vs. L tilt subject, though there IS an over all preference for the right-tilt there, it appears, DOES remain MUCH in the way of market for BOTH!?
Just a related recollection that I thought might be of help. (?)
Warmly, Griz
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
wrote:
"ISTR an ad several years ago for a tablesaw that tilted both left and right. "It sticks out in my mind because I was just starting to enjoy creating "sawdust in earnest and making useful items from the non-sawdust portions. ";-) For stationary power tools all I had was a Delta single speed scroll "saw. I checked out a table saw book from my library & read it cover to "cover. One section discussed (of course ;-) right vs. left tilt saws. One "phrase sticks in my mind: "Some saws tilt left. Some tilt right. No table "saws tilt both ways." Shortly thereafter I saw an ad for a saw that tilted "both ways. It struck me because it was so different from the knowledge I'd "recently gotten from the book. "Here is a saw that tilts both ways!" It "was expensive so I requested no info from the manufacturer. " "I bought a bench Delta 10" table saw and used it for a couple years. "Eventually -- and it took quite awhile <g> -- I needed a TS with more "capability and accuracy. (My inaccuracies were far greater than the limits "of its direct-drive, marginal fence and small table size. <g>) " "I upgraded to the bottom-of-the-line Grizzly contractor saw. It was heaven! "With a good middle-cost blade I used the stock miter gage to cut a bunch of "thin cutoffs from the end of a scrap pine 2"x4". They weren't quite thin "enough to read through, but I did gather up samples and send them in snail "mail to relatives. <g> In the letters I wrote, " "This is what my new table saw can do. Notice how even and thin the 2x4" "cutting is. If it's broken that happened after I dropped it in the mailbox. "They were one piece when I put them in the envelope. For now the saw is "much more accurate than I am. Someday, if my woodworking stills improve "enough, I'd like to get a saw that is able to make cutoffs half as thick as "these. You'd be able to read through them." " "I used the Grizzly a lot. Initially I was completely satisfied with the "stock fence. But my woodworking skills continued to improve and eventually "the small, random difference of the clamping of back edge of the fence "affected the cuts I was making. I bought a used "Shop Fox Original" fence "on the internet, expecting it to be an upgrade in accuracy from the Grizzly "stock fence. To make a long story short, IMO the Shop Fox Original "fence doesn't work nearly as well as the ads would have you believe and I'd "like to replace it. A good new fence is a major portion of the purchase of "a new saw, so why not look for a good new or used saw? <G> " "So I'm thinking of upgrading from a contractor TS to a "real" table saw, a "220v contractor saw. Which way do I want it to tilt? Both! If I'm cutting "an angle from the left side, I want that doggone blade angled away from me. "If I'm ripping an angled cut from the right side, I still want that blade "angled away from me. I've had two TS kickback accidents. The first was "completely my fault -- a cutoff I didn't bother to take off the table got "into the blade and came spinning back. The second was (probably) also my "fault and wouldn't have happened if I'd been using a splitter as wide as the "blade. (The stock splitter is very thin and may not have prevented the "kickback had it been installed.) The second kickback occurred on July 20, "2003 (I wrote the date on the ruined piece and keep it in the shop as a "safety reminder.) The wood grazed my left hand as it spun off the TS and "hit the freezer behind me. Standing there bleeding on the saw and the "floor, I counted my fingers and was rejoicing to find 10 of them still "attached to my hands. More than 3 months later my left hand still has scars "from the accident. I hope the scars last another 100 years as a safety "reminder. " "I'd really like for the table saw blade to always be tilted away from me "when making angled cuts. If I had the space a solution would be to have "both a left and right tilt table saw. But in my single-car garage shop I "don't have the space. " "Do table saws that tilt to both left and right exist? " "Thanks! " " -- Mark "
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what circumstances are gonna arise that I NEED a frickin' right tilt, pray tell??? sounds like the mistake I made getting a PC 557 because it can do 135 degrees, it can do FF biscuits...AND IT'S GOT A SUCKY, LOOSE FENCE!
KISS.
dave
dave
Griz wrote:

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A saw that 'goes both ways'?
Wouldn't that be a Bi-Saw?
Don't bend over in front of it. :}
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B-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-d
--
Jim in NC



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AC-DC, you mean??
I'm told there's a bicycle club on the East Coast, that sponsors a round-trip ride between Atlantic City, and the nations capital.
They used to sell T-shirts with the motto:
"AC-DC We go both ways"
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Yo, Griz,
You say that your only memory of this is from a cursory scan over a picture and article from about ten years ago in the mid-Eighties. That's impressive.
So, tell me. What was birth like?
Oh, yeah, the saw sounds cool too. You would think that ir would be preferable to the saw makers to go ahead and re-tool for this once and get it over with than to have to run to production lines for make both r&l tilt saws.
:-)

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Well, ... I know of at least one! <g> I'm fond of my fingers, I'm really, um, attached to them. <rim shot> And I want to keep it that way. I always want the blade tilted away. Don't have room for two TS's so an ambidextrous model would do nicely.

Yeah! Nice to know I wasn't dreaming.
Since posting I've been wondering about other ways it could be done. 30 years ago I cut hay with a swather. The drive system was based on pulleys & belts. About the time I was leaving the ranch for college hydraulics took over, and the belt & pulley swathers went the way of the horse & buggy. The engine ran a pump and the oil made the thing go. I don't know for sure that this machine is hydraulic motive power but it's similar in size to ones I ran that were: http://www.dieselpage.com/art0119es6.htm
Notice that it's quite a bit more massive than your typical 10" saw blade, yet oil pressure makes it move. Are there any mechanical engineers hanging around here? Maybe the best way to get rid of belt & pulley losses on table saws is to get rid of them. I want a left and right tilt table saw with variable speed. (My saw turns at 4700 RPM but I want to buy a cheap dado set that's only rated for 4500 RPM.)
Engineers -- would hydraulics spin a table saw blade?
-- Mark
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Mark Jerde wrote:

How about a (former) hydraulics technician?
Yes, hydraulics would turn a saw but I don't think it would be cost effective or practical. At least not at the speed it would need to turn a small (10") blade. Maybe in an industrial setting.
A drive system doesn't get much more efficient or simpler than a belt and two pulleys.
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Mark, My table saw tilts both ways, and I can even run the blade horizontally above the table. Problem is, this is a home-made prototype that isn't likely to show up at the Borg any time in the near (or distant) future. I showed the design to this newsgroup several months ago, as I recall the feedback was: 1) the saw is too lightweight to compete with full-sized cabinet saws and 2) it looks difficult to maintain calibration.
If you want to take a look, the pictures are still posted on my web site. http://home.comcast.net/~stephens.michael/rev2.htm
I've thought about building a beefier prototype that includes some of the suggestions from this newsgroup, and I'm also thinking about building a "Dremel" scale version. (Or, I may abandon metal working altogether in favor of making a new kitchen table for my SWMBO. :) Cheers. Mike

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Add 3) Too time consuming to change over. I want to grab a crank and give it a spin. Period.
You all can feel free to steal this idea. Think of a drive shaft motorcycle. Do a saw like that, but have the shaft pointed down, so the motor swing would not limit travel. Other advantages would be a fully enclosed cabinet, making dust collection easy. No belts, only a right angle drive gear box.
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Scott:
The sarcasm is not appreciated but the reason I remember it is perhaps the same reason you noted it - it being SO unusual ! As for my memory: As pertains to things WAY past, like five to ten years +; It is VERY good! SHORT term memory SUCKS ! I favor right tilt for the usual reasons, BUT, there have been MANY occasions when a lefty would have been QUITE helpful. A saw that can claim to be capable of a FULL forty-six deg. BOTH ways - and I see NO reason to disbelieve this claim - would be a REAL innovation ! And you are quite right in that one would think 'they' would see the sense in tooling up to produce ONE saw (truly) capable of doing both !?
Warmly, Griz
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
wrote:
"ISTR an ad several years ago for a tablesaw that tilted both left and right. "It sticks out in my mind because I was just starting to enjoy creating "sawdust in earnest and making useful items from the non-sawdust portions. ";-) For stationary power tools all I had was a Delta single speed scroll "saw. I checked out a table saw book from my library & read it cover to "cover. One section discussed (of course ;-) right vs. left tilt saws. One "phrase sticks in my mind: "Some saws tilt left. Some tilt right. No table "saws tilt both ways." Shortly thereafter I saw an ad for a saw that tilted "both ways. It struck me because it was so different from the knowledge I'd "recently gotten from the book. "Here is a saw that tilts both ways!" It "was expensive so I requested no info from the manufacturer. " "I bought a bench Delta 10" table saw and used it for a couple years. "Eventually -- and it took quite awhile <g> -- I needed a TS with more "capability and accuracy. (My inaccuracies were far greater than the limits "of its direct-drive, marginal fence and small table size. <g>) " "I upgraded to the bottom-of-the-line Grizzly contractor saw. It was heaven! "With a good middle-cost blade I used the stock miter gage to cut a bunch of "thin cutoffs from the end of a scrap pine 2"x4". They weren't quite thin "enough to read through, but I did gather up samples and send them in snail "mail to relatives. <g> In the letters I wrote, " "This is what my new table saw can do. Notice how even and thin the 2x4" "cutting is. If it's broken that happened after I dropped it in the mailbox. "They were one piece when I put them in the envelope. For now the saw is "much more accurate than I am. Someday, if my woodworking stills improve "enough, I'd like to get a saw that is able to make cutoffs half as thick as "these. You'd be able to read through them." " "I used the Grizzly a lot. Initially I was completely satisfied with the "stock fence. But my woodworking skills continued to improve and eventually "the small, random difference of the clamping of back edge of the fence "affected the cuts I was making. I bought a used "Shop Fox Original" fence "on the internet, expecting it to be an upgrade in accuracy from the Grizzly "stock fence. To make a long story short, IMO the Shop Fox Original "fence doesn't work nearly as well as the ads would have you believe and I'd "like to replace it. A good new fence is a major portion of the purchase of "a new saw, so why not look for a good new or used saw? <G> " "So I'm thinking of upgrading from a contractor TS to a "real" table saw, a "220v contractor saw. Which way do I want it to tilt? Both! If I'm cutting "an angle from the left side, I want that doggone blade angled away from me. "If I'm ripping an angled cut from the right side, I still want that blade "angled away from me. I've had two TS kickback accidents. The first was "completely my fault -- a cutoff I didn't bother to take off the table got "into the blade and came spinning back. The second was (probably) also my "fault and wouldn't have happened if I'd been using a splitter as wide as the "blade. (The stock splitter is very thin and may not have prevented the "kickback had it been installed.) The second kickback occurred on July 20, "2003 (I wrote the date on the ruined piece and keep it in the shop as a "safety reminder.) The wood grazed my left hand as it spun off the TS and "hit the freezer behind me. Standing there bleeding on the saw and the "floor, I counted my fingers and was rejoicing to find 10 of them still "attached to my hands. More than 3 months later my left hand still has scars "from the accident. I hope the scars last another 100 years as a safety "reminder. " "I'd really like for the table saw blade to always be tilted away from me "when making angled cuts. If I had the space a solution would be to have "both a left and right tilt table saw. But in my single-car garage shop I "don't have the space. " "Do table saws that tilt to both left and right exist? " "Thanks! " " -- Mark "
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Jim & 'admin':
Re: AC/DC; - Not In THIS Lifetime Baby ! ; ^ )
Warmly - If Likewise Dementedly, Griz
------------------------------------------------------------
wrote:
"ISTR an ad several years ago for a tablesaw that tilted both left and right. "It sticks out in my mind because I was just starting to enjoy creating "sawdust in earnest and making useful items from the non-sawdust portions. ";-) For stationary power tools all I had was a Delta single speed scroll "saw. I checked out a table saw book from my library & read it cover to "cover. One section discussed (of course ;-) right vs. left tilt saws. One "phrase sticks in my mind: "Some saws tilt left. Some tilt right. No table "saws tilt both ways." Shortly thereafter I saw an ad for a saw that tilted "both ways. It struck me because it was so different from the knowledge I'd "recently gotten from the book. "Here is a saw that tilts both ways!" It "was expensive so I requested no info from the manufacturer. " "I bought a bench Delta 10" table saw and used it for a couple years. "Eventually -- and it took quite awhile <g> -- I needed a TS with more "capability and accuracy. (My inaccuracies were far greater than the limits "of its direct-drive, marginal fence and small table size. <g>) " "I upgraded to the bottom-of-the-line Grizzly contractor saw. It was heaven! "With a good middle-cost blade I used the stock miter gage to cut a bunch of "thin cutoffs from the end of a scrap pine 2"x4". They weren't quite thin "enough to read through, but I did gather up samples and send them in snail "mail to relatives. <g> In the letters I wrote, " "This is what my new table saw can do. Notice how even and thin the 2x4" "cutting is. If it's broken that happened after I dropped it in the mailbox. "They were one piece when I put them in the envelope. For now the saw is "much more accurate than I am. Someday, if my woodworking stills improve "enough, I'd like to get a saw that is able to make cutoffs half as thick as "these. You'd be able to read through them." " "I used the Grizzly a lot. Initially I was completely satisfied with the "stock fence. But my woodworking skills continued to improve and eventually "the small, random difference of the clamping of back edge of the fence "affected the cuts I was making. I bought a used "Shop Fox Original" fence "on the internet, expecting it to be an upgrade in accuracy from the Grizzly "stock fence. To make a long story short, IMO the Shop Fox Original "fence doesn't work nearly as well as the ads would have you believe and I'd "like to replace it. A good new fence is a major portion of the purchase of "a new saw, so why not look for a good new or used saw? <G> " "So I'm thinking of upgrading from a contractor TS to a "real" table saw, a "220v contractor saw. Which way do I want it to tilt? Both! If I'm cutting "an angle from the left side, I want that doggone blade angled away from me. "If I'm ripping an angled cut from the right side, I still want that blade "angled away from me. I've had two TS kickback accidents. The first was "completely my fault -- a cutoff I didn't bother to take off the table got "into the blade and came spinning back. The second was (probably) also my "fault and wouldn't have happened if I'd been using a splitter as wide as the "blade. (The stock splitter is very thin and may not have prevented the "kickback had it been installed.) The second kickback occurred on July 20, "2003 (I wrote the date on the ruined piece and keep it in the shop as a "safety reminder.) The wood grazed my left hand as it spun off the TS and "hit the freezer behind me. Standing there bleeding on the saw and the "floor, I counted my fingers and was rejoicing to find 10 of them still "attached to my hands. More than 3 months later my left hand still has scars "from the accident. I hope the scars last another 100 years as a safety "reminder. " "I'd really like for the table saw blade to always be tilted away from me "when making angled cuts. If I had the space a solution would be to have "both a left and right tilt table saw. But in my single-car garage shop I "don't have the space. " "Do table saws that tilt to both left and right exist? " "Thanks! " " -- Mark "
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