Ridgid, Grizzly, or other 6" Jointer?

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On 2/18/2016 2:26 PM, dadiOH wrote:

How many brd.ft of 1 1/8" or 5/4" or 1/2" stock have you made with your sander? Not much I imagine. How long would it take you to sand a 2x6x8 to 1 1/8" thickness?
Also, flattening twisted stock on a drum sander or a planer is a royal pia, which is why jointers exist. Can you sand a hunk of black walnut firewood flat? Simple with a jointer. If you don't do any of this stuff, maybe a jointer/planer is not needed. If you do, then a drum sander may be useful at some point, but it is not the right tool for this stuff.
--
Jack
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Jack wrote:

Add 1/4, 3/8, 7/16, 3/4, 13/16, 7/8 and 15/16 and it is at least 1000. Probably considerably more as I always buy rough stock.

If it is actually 2" thick I would first rip down to 1 1/4 or a bit more. After that, 4-5 passes...4-5 minutes.

Sure, as long as it is no more than 3" thick.

You have your preference, I have mine. There is no doubt that a planer is useful and faster but budgetary and space considerations are a consideration. As I've said before, I would get rid of ANY other tool before the sander.
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John McCoy wrote:

I don't have a planer, never used one but I suspect it is the same...
Run board through, concave side down to make convex side flat. Turn over, run through to make concave side flat (and parallel).
Leon mentioned that drum sanders are slower and I imagine so. Still,I have a couple of hundred feet of mahogany I have been surfacing as needed and I can take off 1/16 per pass with #40 paper. Fast enough for me and no tear out :)
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On 2/14/2016 5:23 AM, dadiOH wrote:

relatively fine grit compared to 40 but wow 1/16" in a pass is pretty aggressive by my standards. :~) And thinking I should get some 40 grit paper. I use my 15" planer when I need to do a lot but more often than not the drum sander is adequate for small batches.
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On 2/14/16 7:22 AM, Leon wrote:

I've got a 16/32 Performax, only 1 HP (not sure what the 22/44 has), but with a 36 grit belt I'll cut a 1/2 turn (1/32) per pass. I would hesitate to go deeper. One _big_ difference between a planer and drum is the drum has (comparatively) weaker hold down rollers and any bowing on boards longer than 2x the sanders bed width will leave divots (snipe).
-BR
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On 2/14/2016 9:39 AM, Brewster wrote:

I believe I have 120 or 150 grit on my sander. I typically go a quarter turn between passes.
I typically use the sander over the planer when I am dealing with wonky grain. The sander is not going to present any tear out issues like a planer will.
Additionally the big stationary planers, mine at least, have steel in feed rollers with ridges to grab the wood. If you do not take off enough material the in feed will leave shallow indentations in the wood.
I would have to guess this is if I am removing less than 1/64". It is best to plan your last pass through the planer so that you are removing a relatively measurable amount. Obviously the softer the wood the more likely this is going to happen. I installed a digital depth gauge to make sneaking up on the last pass a little easier.
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Brewster wrote:

The boards I'm doing now (see reply to Leon) are about 7 1/2' long. Two have mild bowing. No snipe.
As I run the board through, more is taken on the ends from the side bowed up, more from the center from the side bowed down; final result is flat or close to. Once cut to final length (44") and finish sanded, all bow will be gone. It functions like that because I made extendible, variable, in/out feed supports. On the bowed up side, the weight of the board keeps the leading and trailing edges of the board a bit high; consequently, more is taken off; conversely for the other side.
If the hold down rollers aren't properly adjusted, one will get snipe regardless of the board length.
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Leon wrote:

Performax 16-32. The 1/16" is depending...how wide, how hard, how even (in thickness, wind, etc.). Oak, probably not; poplar, sure.
At the moment, I am skinnying down some mahogany so I can see the grain so I can make a support knee for wife's makeup table (the last thing for the vanities). One piece is 10 1/2 wide, the others 6 1/2+-. I had 80 grit on the machine, didn't want to change it so I'm just taking 1/32 per pass. With 40 grit I am pretty sure I could do 1/16" even though one of the narrow boards had some wind in it.
The four grits I use are 40, 80, 120 and 180. With 120, I only do 1/48 per pass, with 180, 1/64. I have no problem skipping grits...40 to 120, eg, or 80 to 180. I get full rolls from Econ-Abrasives. https://www.econabrasives.com/products.php?id 3&size=3%22X50Yards
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On 2/14/2016 10:42 AM, dadiOH wrote:

Sounds about right per my findings....
I bought from http://www.abrasiveaccessories.com/abrasive-products.php?id 9&size=3X50YRD
I would not be supervised if they were both one in the same. They are from the same metro area of Dallas TX
I do see that they have dropped their web pricing.
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On 02/14/2016 5:23 AM, dadiOH wrote:

I suppose with the little lunchbox planers, they may not have enough hold down force to not, but a "real" planer will (and a lunchbox has to, at least to a degree) take any bow out, smooth the top surface as it goes through, then the bow will come back out the other side.
A jointer, otoh, takes the high spots off and leaves one with a flat surface _first_. _THEN_ one runs that face down through the planer and ends up with voila!! a flat and parallel-faced piece of stock.
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On 2/14/2016 9:47 AM, dpb wrote:

And that is the correct way to do it. But a planer can take the bow out if the wood is sent through with a flat sled and several wedges under the "bowed up" spots to prevent the planer from bending/flatenning the wood out.
But I have to say WHAT A PAIN IN THE BUTT! It works well but the process is labor intensive, especially with long boards. You have to grab the sled and the work as a unit and run tem through several times. Heavy work by comparison to no sled.
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On 02/14/2016 10:04 AM, Leon wrote:

Yabbut... <VBG>
I'd use a hand scrub plane first...for _a_ board.
It's why I keep both planers and rue not having brought that large jointer altho I did finally break down and the last batch of maple I bought I paid for initial surfacing as it is almost all wider than 8" which the jointer here won't handle in a single pass...
I may just check if TVA did ever get rid of it or whether it's still just sitting there -- might just have to take the truck next time go to visit the kids/grandkids!!! :)
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On 2/14/2016 10:18 AM, dpb wrote:

Is that electric??? ;~) I did notice "a" board.
I do not do enough to warrant going further at this point. I hand pick my S4S material. BUT several years ago I bought 200 BF of rough cut red and white oak and flattened it on the sled and planer. Never again. ;~) I do not enjoy the process of turning rough lumber into "ready to use" lumber.

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On 02/14/2016 12:35 PM, Leon wrote:

Indeed. Deliberately stated as you noticed... :)

I got in the habit when in VA and there were all those little one-man sawmills everywhere that could get gorgeous stuff from at "giveaway" prices. Oak (any kind, sawn however wanted, just pick it out) was 10 cents, walnut 15-20 and cherry up to 25 for really wide stuff...
Later, when wasn't so handy in TN I bought just 2C of whatever I wanted as the most economical choice. I moved most of a (small bobtail) truckload when we came back of a mix of oak, walnut, hard maple, some butternut and a smattering of a lot of other stuff collected over 30 years.
When doing windows for the barn, however, I could _not_ find any 5/4 clear white pine at the time as it was in the big housing boom time and everything was being bought up by Andersen, Pella, etc., or being exported. So, I bought the soft maple for the purpose through the mill shop in Wichita that did the replacement siding and bed mould I needed for me. I did let them surface one side of it plus some 8" SYP I bought from which to pick through to find trim pieces so I do have one flat starting side on it.
The rest of everything here at the moment is all roughsawn, though.
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dpb wrote:

I'm glad I have the drum sander :)
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On 02/14/2016 10:57 AM, dadiOH wrote: ...

They're nice, indeed...in Lynchburg had access to a large (30") dual-drum unit but never did invest in one of the home-shop Performax or similar...would be nice, however, granted...
But, I get by... :)
--



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On 2/14/2016 11:03 AM, dpb wrote:

I think "if" I replaced mine I might look at the SuperMax, IIRC. IIRC Jet bought Performax several years ago, just after I bought my Performax, and sell it under the Jet and Powermatic name now. IIRC the Jet was identical except for the name to my Performax
http://www.jettools.com/us/en/p/16-32-plus-20-amp-service-with-608003-stand/629004K
And the prettied up Performax. IIRC the insides are pretty much like the Jet. ALTHOUGH Jet does offer the oscillating version too.
http://www.powermatic.com/us/en/p/pm2244-drum-sander-1-3-4hp-115v/1792244
http://www.jettools.com/us/en/p/22-44-oscillating-drum-sander-kit-with-closed-stand/659006K
The SuperMax has 2 drums on some models
http://www.supermaxtools.com/products/wood/
As I commented in a previous post, when they are available your find more uses. I forgot to mention in another post that I used it to tweak the fit of small short/shallow drawers by sanding the top edges and bottom edges on the drum sander.
Anyway.........
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On 02/14/2016 12:54 PM, Leon wrote: ...

I know I've told the story before that when first got to Lynchburg where there were TREES!!!! for heaven's sake!! and got the real ww'ing bug that had been mildly planted in HS shop, first ran into a kid just out of HS at the time making decoupage plaques on a one-at-a-time basis with a little Craftsman shaper and hand sander. Mr Davis of Davis Paint, a regional manufacturer there was selling them in their retail store downtown for him and he was earning enough (with a lot of time invested) to keep himself in school at least part time with a new wife, to boot.
Mr Davis offered to bankroll him a shop and it was answering his ad in the Sunday paper to sell the shaper and the Powermatic planer that I met him. Mr Davis upgraded him and set him up a shop in the 2nd basement under the store (there were two more below it, 12-ft ceilings, dry, well-lit, _great_ shop space) with a two-spindled shaper, the 24" PM planer and a stroke sander.
Within five years, Eddie was running 40,000 bd-ft thru the shop in a single year, primarily at that time doing the wooden platforms for Craddock-Terry shoe company there in Lynchburg. At that time the plaque business had fallen off but the remnant of it was access to the drum sander when I wanted...
The sander was an old Smith unit Mr Davis got from Lane on a swap; iirc it was 20hp. Initially there wasn't enough dust collection and things got real messy the first time we turned it on! :)
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Leon wrote:

Supermax are the same folks who started Performax with the accessory that mounted on a RAS. Nice folks, always responsive.
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On 2/14/2016 3:21 PM, dadiOH wrote:

HUH! and no I know! I did notice that Jet is really getting onto this type machinery and even some of their sanders closely resemble the SuperMax.
Oh BTY I was not pointing fingers at you about the difficulty you were having with the slides or indicate that you were incapable of figuring things out. Initially I had problems with the up/down thing too. BUT I also had problems with pronouncing certain words until I learned and I did not request that the words be spelled differently so that I could say them. ;~) My comments were aimed more at those that do not do any woodworking and try to tell us the best way to do so.
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