Ridgid, Grizzly, or other 6" Jointer?

Page 4 of 6  
On 2/19/2016 7:54 PM, dpb wrote:

Seems to be a lot of conjecture and speculation as to what the OP should buy. We really need to get this right. To do it properly, the OP should submit the following: Income records for the past five years Liabilities, mortgage, credit card statements. List of woodworking projects from the past three years. Projected projects for the next three years. Plans should be included if available. Inventory of wood and materials.
Once those materials are submitted the Equipment Committee will review and recommend the right equipment.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I can recommend a tool without marrying the guy! ;-)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 2/19/2016 7:54 PM, dpb wrote:

They may last as long, but once they get dull, that's it, and sharpening/set up is not fun. A segmented cutter can simply be rotated so you have 4 times the usage before sharpening/replacement, and set up is automatic. Also a nick in a blade is simple to fix just by rotating one cutter, and again, alignment is automatic.

I guess it comes down to how long it would take you to save up a few hundred bucks. My experience is it is well worth the wait, the advantages are rather large. It's not like it cost 5-6 times as much, it's just a bit more money. A Festool shop vac cost 5-6 times as much as a normal shop vac, and the advantages are not really much.
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 02/20/2016 7:50 AM, Jack wrote:

No, set up is _not_ much of an issue with a knife-setting jig. Does your cutterhead have the back-pressure springs? If not, it can indeed be a nuisance, but if have them to work against, it's quite a routine exercise. I suppose it helps to have done enough to have developed both a setup method and a little dexterity in the process over the 30+ years...
As for sharpening, I have two sets; I send the one out and use the other but it's normally at least a year between. At the amount of work I've been doing it's been longer than that although was getting ready to ramp up again to do the barn windows and hopefully some other stuff this spring.
That part, to me, just is a non-issue entirely and no reason to switch.
--


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 2/20/2016 9:37 AM, dpb wrote:

I hear that. I'm not recommending anyone "switch", just not to go there in the first place. I myself have not switched my long blade jointer. I'm certain however, if I was 40 years younger and buying my first jointer/planer, they would have the segmented spiral cutter heads.
I also would buy a Domino or similar tool rather than an el cheapo Delta mortise machine. I'd have to look into whether the extra 300 for the Festool was worth it vs say a Lamello, but I know I'd not be buying a dedicated mortiser, even though we lived many years w/o the Domino. This is based on owning a cheap delta mortiser, and Leon's comments on the Domino as well as watching them in use and seeing the advantages.
This is just my opinion of course. Those just starting out can take it or leave it, it's just one guys opinion.
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 2/21/2016 11:51 AM, Jack wrote:

Just a bit of info concerning the Lamello to the Domino. I seriously doubt that there is much difference in the quality of the two units.
The huge difference however is what they are making cuts for, the biscuit or the floating tenon. IMHO the floating tenons are stronger and fit in a larger variety of places. While the biscuit comes in the FF size for face frames it is still twice as wide as a 5mm Domino which is approximately 3/4" wide. IIRC the FF biscuit is 1-3/16" wide and penetrates 1/4" on both halves. The 5mm Domino penetrated 1/2" on both halves and is about 3/4" wide.
There is a smaller Domino tenon, 4mm, and a much larger one, 10mm, that the smaller Domino mortiser will cut and it penetrates about 1" on each half of the joint.
Basically you can add floating tenons to the end of a 1" wide rail with no worry of it showing, not so with a plate joiner.
Just saying.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 2/21/2016 11:24 PM, Leon wrote:

All good reasons for buying the Domino I'd think. Assuming you are right about the Lamello, I wouldn't be comfortable joining legs and rails and such with a 1/4" biscuit depth. I don't *need* anything like that for edge gluing table tops and such, not needed imo. Pocket joints are fine for FF, but any where you would need/use a mortising machine, a Domino would seem the way to go. Your experience bears that out and if I were making my first cabinets, I'd be buying or saving up for one. Since I'm on closer to my last cabinet, I'll just get a drool cup and save my money for something more appropriate.
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I have never used a Lamello but have heard nothing but high praises especially when compared to the common brands. I do use the domino for panel glue ups. Seldom are all the pieces perfectly flat and the ridged floating tenons that fit more tightly than biscuits work better with alignment of surfaces than biscuits IMHO. The floating tenons work so well, and not just for strength, I never dreamed what all I would use them for. Once clones of the Domino appear, and they certainly will, I suspect the plate joiners will disappear.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 2/23/2016 12:56 AM, Leon wrote:

I wondered if anyone made Domino clone. I certainly would be looking into getting a Domino if I were in the market. Jay Bates has a youtube video making a cabinet and he looks like he is using a domino. He makes pretty neat videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X0jdENSbJs

Interesting watch even if you already have a domino...
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 2/23/2016 9:30 AM, Jack wrote:

Just a guess here, the Domino is unique and I'm sure it probably has another 8~10 years of patent protection.
IIRC Freud offered, for a short period, a compromise between a Domino an plate joiner. It looked the same except it drilled 2 holes for dowels.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tuesday, February 23, 2016 at 12:28:21 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:

You remember correctly! For some strange reason, they quit making them abo ut 4+ years ago. I don't know what happened to them as the machine got som e great reviews and a double dowel system certainly has its strength. Oddl y, it was Freud that stopped, so there must have been some kind of copyrigh t or patent infringement.
But they are still around, and quite affordable. I have been tempted for y ears, especially since they offer 1/4" and 3/8" sizes on the bits for dowel s. Even a 1/4" striated dowel properly installed has quite a bit of holdin g power, but that 3/8" would be about as strong as I would need. And of co urse, there is always the option to take one bit out and use it as a single dowel machine.
http://www.tritontools.com/en-AU/Model/TDJ600
or
http://goo.gl/OYQKUF (which is a great tool manufacturer located in Germany , and all tools made there)
The problem with the Mafell doweling machine... it even MORE expensive than the Domino, and not by a little bit, either.
No doubt thanks to you, I wouldn't consider the Mafell in light of the Domi no's performance.
That Triton sure looks interesting though from time to time.
Heck, I remember when dowel joints were considered great woodworking and a sign of craftsmanship. When I learned to lay up panels, we always did a fe w dowels per joint. I remember doing doweled miter joints on rail/stile co nstruction, too. Looks pretty old fashioned, now...
Robert
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 2/24/2016 7:04 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I thought it was a pretty good idea but you know how things don't pan out as they appear? Thinking about it, and this was long after I bought the Domino, I considered that a large percentage of my mortises are in the end of a narrow piece of wood. If the dowels are too far apart you can only drill one hole and then you give up the strength of two dowels which would also prevent the joint from rotating, like it would with only one dowel. Alternatively you could drill one hole and simply move the tool over and drill another hole closer. BUT that presents a fit problem, you must drill the mating holes exactly the same distance apart on the mating side of the joint.
And on top of that even if you use both bits to drill pairs of holes, alignment of mating holes is going to become an issue with the next set of holes and each after that. Aligning to a pencil mark is not going to be accurate enough with precise fitting dowels. This is OK with a plate joiner as the biscuit can slip back and forth a slight bit.
The Domino has a solution which I use on every one of my mating mortises. I cut one side as an exact fit mortice to fit the domino tenon and the opposite side mortice is cut slightly elongated, wiggle room. The bit simply swings slightly wider left and right when cutting on that setting. IIRC the smallest setting for an elongated mortice is about 3/16" wider than an exact fit. FWIW I never mate exact fit mortises together. The Domino has an indexing system to insure exact placement however the Festool reps explained that this is accurate as long as the internal adjustment on the side to side movement of the bit remains dead center. There is an eccentric adjustment, to compensate, on one of the indexing pins but I never use it.
Knowing that, I decided to not bother with exact fit mortices holes on both sides. This very reason may be why some Domino owners do not use their machines as much as I do. I don't expect the tool to always perform precisely as designed, due to normal wear or what ever, so I get to use it ever where I want with out alignment problems 10,000+ mortises later. Is that clear at a all? LOL

You know the one with a turret and probably sitting beside that one the self centering one. ;~)
I experienced similar problems with both that I mentioned above.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Excellent post Leon, with a lot of great info. I'm not a dowel fan myself, and also have the same dowel jig you have that I inherited. Used it a few times, not accurate enough for dowels. A prime attraction of the Domino, among many, is the joints can adjust a bit, so perfect precision is not needed. Dowels must be absolutely perfect, something that is incompatible with custom woodwork, imo.
On 2/24/2016 9:13 PM, Leon wrote:

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You got it Jack! :-).

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 at 8:14:04 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:

OK... no kidding... that makes perfect sense. I always thought that the mo rtises had to be nearly perfect for the actual Domino biscuit to work. Now I understand. This is kind of an "AHA!!" moment for me as I couldn't figu re out how anyone could get multiple dominoes places on the same surface wi thout the kind of accuracy that would make Krenov blush. Makes more sense, now.

I have no doubt. I have never heard of that little "fudge factor" that wou ld make the tool imminently more usable. Doubtful most Domino owners have either.

Read it a couple of times, but once I got the squirrel moving, my brain cau ght up with it. Makes perfect sense.

I used a clamp on model of the dowel drilling guide, one that had a long fl ange on it so that it could be secured to the work with a squeeze clamp. I t was a nice shop fixture, but undoubtedly we had alignment problems as you described. My solution (so kill me already...) was about the same as your Domino work around. One side of a glue up was drilled with the manufactur er's intended 1/4" dowels. The other I drilled with a slightly bigger hole to get that same fudge factor.
Not all that elegant, but it worked.
Robert
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 2/23/2016 9:30 AM, Jack wrote:

I grinned through that and another of his video's. Took me back to building furniture with construction grade lumber. I was amused at the effort that went in to mounting the drawer slides too. ;~)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Jack wrote:

Lots of people are making their own, numerous videos on Youtube.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Not really. Lots of people making jigs of one kind or another. Something that does what the Domino does as conveniently and efficiently, not so much.
Some guy with engineering talent and a well equipped machine shop might have made an actual clone for his own use, but that's not something that the average hobbyist is going to pull off.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 02/20/2016 7:50 AM, Jack wrote: ...

I thought you above were rueing the fact you hadn't done so? If not, what's the advantage other than pure hypothesis of which you speak?
I hadn't priced replacements so used Grizz...turns out they're basically a wash for replacement as far as initial cost...the 8" head has 40 inserts that are roughly $40/10 so $40*4 = $160 per set or, dividing out the four sides, $40/one edge. That's about the cost of their set of straight knives. Of course, you've got 4X the cost outlay at one time to counter that a little so there is more pain up front although one may manage to stagger replacement such that never do buy a full new set at once.
OTOH, while the carbide solid knives were more up front, I've had these sets for approaching 20 years and they'll outlast me with just a few sharpenings as they're still wide enough for at least several more times as long as they don't get deeply knicked...
Anyway, if I were in the market for a new one, I'd consider it but it wouldn't be the primary reason for a go/no-go decision by any stretch if, as OP notes, were on a budget and for a smaller machine to start with.
If I were back at the time I bought the PM Model 66, I'd probably be on the same side of the fence -- I did, in fact, suffer along with an old DeWalt RAS as the only thing for years until I could finally feel could afford the 66 that I had lusted for for years...but I was _much_ younger and full of plans at the time, then!!! :)
But, I don't get that's OP's position now and I'm counseling him, not making my own decision here.
--



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Jack wrote:

I've used my drum sander for that purpose (and others) with at least 1000 brd.ft. of lumber. I have never been disappointed.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.