Ridgid, Grizzly, or other 6" Jointer?

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On 2/13/2016 3:57 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

Good thing you are keeping them reasons a secret too. If the general public knew of them chaos would ensue.
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On 2/13/2016 6:25 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Spewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww...... on my screen and ROTFLMAO!
He probably read that somewhere and can't remember if the reasons is because,
A. Rubber does not make a good table saw top.
B. A drill often works better when spinning clockwise.
C. Things on the internet are better.
D. none of the above.
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On Sat, 13 Feb 2016 19:25:53 -0500

i know
wait chaos has already ensued you are too late
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HerHusband wrote:

If they were still being made, I would suggest Bridgewood, distributed by Wilke Machinery but they are not, nor is Wilke Machinery still in business. However, that is what I bought a dozen or more years ago because they were very well made and gave the most bang for the buck.
If I had it to do over, I would buy none. Why? Because I rarely use it and because I can do what it does in other ways. Consider...
Before you can join an edge, you must have a flat face. I can - and do - get that with my drum sander. Normally, I do both sides of a board on the sander (I start with rough lumber); at that point it is very unlikely that either edge is at right angles to the faces so I skim off one edge on the table saw, flip it and skim off the other edge.
IME, even rough lumber almost always has one edge that is suitable for guiding on the saw fence. On the rare occasions that is not true, I will use the joiner to nip off a bit so it is; however I could do the same thing with a hand plane, or with a saw or router and straight edge.
I also use the sander for edges; it will only do up to 3" wide but is is surprising how many parts are that ot less. For wider pieces, I could use the joiner but I'm more likely to use my router table, especially on very wide pieces, because I can run it flat rather than on edge.
In short, if I had to give up a tool, the joiner would go first; last would be the drum sander. Yes, I'd dump my table saw before I gave up the sander. Which doesn't mean you shouldn't buy a joiner, just saying. If I were you, I'd not worry about width; as others have said, longest bed is best. Why not worry about width? Because a joiner can give you a flat face but not parallel ones...you need something else for that. Plus, because I wouldn't run wide boards through a joiner without some sort of power feed.
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OK, I'm a little confused here - how is that different from running a board thru a planer? Seems like it would make it smooth but not flat.
John
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On 2/13/2016 10:17 PM, John McCoy wrote:

Obviously confused. Did he mention anything about a planer? I don't believe that he said any thing about a drum sander being better suited than a planer. He simply said, I can and do get a flat face with his drum sander.
But to answer your question, the drum sander pretty much will do what a planer will do except at a much slower pace. Given that, a rum sander has many advantages over a planer.
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On 2/14/2016 12:39 AM, Leon wrote:

A jointer makes surfaces flat, planer makes them parallel and the required thickness and a drum sander makes them smooth. Confusing their purpose is common, but doesn't always work. Trying to get wood to a required thickness with parallel faces with a jointer or sander is fraught with disappointment.
If you are using rough cut lumber, re-using, re-purposing lumber, making wood from firewood and other such things, you need a jointer and a planer. I would not but either unless they had segmented, spiral cutter heads. If you can't afford that, save your pennies.
If you use a planer (hopefully with a segmented spiral cutter head) you probably need a jointer (hopefully with a segmented spiral cutter head) Tis not easy to build fine furniture w/o a planer, as store bought lumber is not always the correct thickness for proper esthetics, among other things.
Jointing an edge is a luxury with a jointer, but can be done ok with a TS. A Flat face, a requirement for use with a planer, is done on a jointer. Generally speaking, 6" wide is enough, as (generally speaking) wide boards should be made up of *less* than 6" wide pieces.
--
Jack
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On 2/18/2016 11:34 AM, Jack wrote:

True for the most part but with a sled, not just a panel so much as a reinforced panel that remains flat, you can flatten a surface on a planer, flip and make the opposite surface parallel with the other.
This is not an easy task and a jointer would better suited, but in a pinch... The drum sander essentially works the same as a planer and can do that of a planer but typically slower and with a smoother result.

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On 02/18/2016 11:34 AM, Jack wrote: ...

...
The spiral segmented head has some advantages, granted, but we survived just fine without for 100 year or so before they were available, so the advice to do without unless is _way_ over the top imo. It's far more useful to go get some work done than it is to wait for the ultimate, most expensive solution.
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On Thursday, February 18, 2016 at 12:50:18 PM UTC-6, dpb wrote:

Isn't that the truth. I have seen so many (especially hobbyists) paralyze themselves by waiting for a product that will make up for their lack of ski lls. Sometimes it isn't even a more expensive solution, just the simple pr omise that a new tool is coming out. With so many solutions out there for almost any woodworking challenge, unless you spot a tool that will be a bac kbone of your construction technique there isn't much of a reason to wait on a new product.
This is even more true when you stop and consider how many actual hours of usage said tool will face in a year's worth of work. To me it is almost alw ays better to find an immediate solution and get to work on the product.
Robert
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On 2/18/2016 7:38 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Just as common is a hobbyists buying the first cheap tool they see and ending up replacing it with one that does the job, paying twice, or quitting because their tools weren't up to the task. At any rate, the tool is a helical spiral cutter head. Grizzly makes cheap ones, or you can splurge and spend a ton on an industrial high dollar one. If you are hard up for cash, get the grizzly rather than wait for the industrial one.

In this case, it's not waiting for a new product, spiral cutter heads have been around a long time.

Often true, but in a planer/jointer, if buying one, you probably will be using it a lot for many years. Much better to save up a few dollars and buy one that does the job really well than buy a so-so one that you will be stuck with for 40 years. If you are not going to use it long enough, or often enough to justify the extra cost, you probably should re-think buying it to begin with. Jointers and planers are not the first tool woodworkers (particularly hobbyist) buy.
My recommendation is not to go Harbor Freight on this purchase, this is not a throwaway purchase like a HF air stapler, and no need to sell the wife and kids and go Festool, but at least go spiral, you will be happy you did.
--
Jack
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On 2/18/2016 1:50 PM, dpb wrote:

I agree if you are talking about a $600 Festool shop vac vs a $100 Ridged. I don't agree if you are talking about a jointer or a planer. The difference is not slight, it is major, and the results are not the same. And, you don't have to buy the most expensive one, you can buy Grizzly instead. In other words, buy a ridged shop vac for $100 and use the $400-500 savings from Festool to step up to a helical segmented planer/jointer.
As far as survival, we survived lots of stuff. We could always use a hand plane if survival was the issue. If you are buying, might as well get a tool that has major advantages. If you already own a lessor tool (I own an archaic jointer) no need to run out and buy a new one, but once you use a segmented cutter head, anything less is an aggravation. My jointer is 60 years old, so keep in mind for home workshop use, these things will be in use a LONG time, so why buy aggravation.
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On 02/19/2016 9:07 AM, Jack wrote:

...

That's not the same argument as not buying anything unless...

Mine is also (old Rockwell Delta 8") and I've used ones with both helical solid knives and the segmented heads as well and just don't see _that_ much difference, sorry. In fact, the segmented heads I've seen/used left telltale marks behind...easy enough to remove, sure, but...
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On 02/19/2016 9:27 AM, dpb wrote:

...

...
The same argument could be made against the purchase of the Ridgid vis a vis the Festool; they're far superior in many ways as well... :)
But, I hadn't realized the price differential had come down to that level; just looked up a couple. Thought was still closer to 2X that...
Still I'd never tell somebody they _had_ to spend that extra $400-500 or the rest was a mistake.
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On 2/19/2016 11:12 AM, dpb wrote:

Not really. A Festool vacuum costs 5-6 times the Ridgid, and work about the same.

Obviously I'm not telling anyone what they _had_ to do. I'm also not telling them to buy an expensive planer. They can buy a cheap Grizzly segmented helical planer for not a whole lot more than a cheap long blade Grizzly planer. If money is not an issue, they can buy a better Laguna, or similar spiral cutter head planer for 2x as much money. Both tools will do the same job, and depending on your finances, and usage, either will perform much better than a long blade planer. If you are a hobbyist, or a small custom shop, either might work ok, if you're A huge furniture manufacturer, then that little Laguna might look like a piece of junk.
I don't recommend buying junk though. Harbor Freight sells a 12" planer for under $300. That might suit some, but not me. If you need a planer today, and only have $300 to spend, that could be your only choice I guess, otherwise, I'd recommend against it. If you already own a decent long blade planer or jointer, no need to sell them and buy ones with helical segmented cutter heads, but if you did, you would _not_ be unhappy.
--
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I suspect it's because of 4 letters: HEPA. I noticed looking at vacs a few years ago that those 4 letters double a Vac's price. Ridgid had two that were almost identical, but one was HEPA and the other not. $200 price difference, IIRC.
I can see paying extra for some of the features a Festool or Fein vac has, but maybe not $400 extra. I sure do like the variable speed and automatic on, but those features alone aren't worth quite that much.
(FYI, my price information could be out of date... or just plain wrong. I'm not checking figures for a Usenet post.)
Puckdropper
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On 20 Feb 2016 18:25:06 GMT, Puckdropper

The Goretex filters for a Shopvac will give you a good approximation of a hepa filtered one.
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On 02/20/2016 3:35 PM, Markem wrote: ...

Thru the filter itself, maybe; most non-HEPA-qualified vac's have quite a lot of bypass leakage, however, which pretty much defeats the purpose...
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Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

FWIW variable speed is important if you use the vac attached to power tools and especially if you attach sanders. For the Festool sanders whose pad does not hang over the edge of the work high suction is a problem. With high suction the sander is more difficult to maneuver. On the flip side you need high suction for saws, routers, dominos, etc. FWIW also with a quiet vac you are more likely to use the vac with all of your tools that work with a vac. I own 5 Festool power tools, not counting the Festool vac. I never operate any of them with out the vac except for the drill. So when ever I operate any of my corded Festool tools, the vac automatically comes on. Typical Quiet HEPA certified vacs typically offer low noise so you are not tortured with the loud sound, automatic switching so that you only have to turn on the attached tool, variable speed to match sanding dust collection or high volume suction, and clean air exhaust. Clean air exhaust is important for your lungs and for your finishes. I have no second thoughts about sanding in close proximity to freshly stained or varnished pieces.
To sum it up, if you want to buy a vac that you will probably use more because of these features buy better quality. If none of the above is important to you then there are the ones they you find cheaply priced. You do have the option of having a better vac.

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On 02/22/2016 9:05 AM, Leon wrote: ...

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Does it automagically regulate suction level to the tool or is that manual, Leon?
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