Resurfacing a table with thick veneer

[Puckdropper]

I've got a table built out of pine and plywood that was used for years as a painting table for models. The "finish" was random bits of paint on the bare plywood. Now that I've replaced the table with a bigger one, I'd like to see about renewing the surface somehow. The paint was removed using a sander, but there's still paint in the recesses that isn't going to come out very easily.

I was thinking about resurfacing the top with thick veneer cut on the band saw. My planer only goes down to 1/8", so I'll probably aim to cut to 3/16" then plane to 1/8". The material will probably be pine to match the rest of the table.

I've got plenty of Titebond II that I can use for this, but if it's not going to work all that well I could try something else like contact cement or maybe flooring glue.

The easy way out is just to paint the table, but I'd like to experiment with bandsawn veneers. The table was always intended to be a utility table, so I'm free to experiment.

Any advice or suggestions?

Puckdropper

[-MIKE-]

Contact cement, just like with a Formica laminates. There are probably a thousand tutorials on the web for how to do it. Cut the veneer bigger than the top. Glue both surfaces, wait 5 minutes. Spread out sticks on the top, put veneer on sticks. Pull sticks out one at a time. Use a roller to press surfaces together.

[Swingman]

Plastic resin glue (ureaformaldehyde glue) is your best bet for gluing laminates. It has a relatively long open time and does not creep like other glues.

I've used it for curved lamination's to good effect, just be sure that you make sure the product is fresh as it only has about a year shelf life and many places who carry it don't turn their inventory that often.

Just for the record, it is also David J Marks goto glue for laminating:

[Puckdropper]

Swingman wrote in news:ePydnWxwY73YKtfNnZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]:

I'll have to give it a try. My local Ace is supposed to carry it, and if they've got 1 lb containers I'll have more than enough.

The instructions recommend clamping for several hours. Since I'm doing a 2'x4' table top, do I need to watch out for squeeze out or creep if I use cauls?

Puckdropper

[Swingman]

Both will be much less of a problem than with other glues.

I've done some fairly large glue-ups with the Weld Wood brand from Ace Hardware down through the years, here's the most recent about a year ago:

an area as big as you're contemplating, I would use a large paintbrush to spread the UF glue once mixed. There should be a code on the can that includes the date, pay particular attention to that ... and call the company if in doubt.

The powder is hygroscopic, thus over time, water will be absorbed by the powder, even in a factory sealed can.

Any powder thus affected will have, instead of the desired consistency of a smooth syrup when mixed with water, tiny beads of powder that don't mix well, and therefore give it a bit of grainy texture.

That does not mean that you will not still get a good bond, but it does make it a bit harder to spread, and you might only get a percentage (although a large one) of the strength of the fresh product.

Best to insure freshness before you buy, although Ace Hardware will refund a bad product, it won't pay for a less desirable than expected end product.

Unibond 800 is also an excellent UF plastic resin product, and is mixed with a catalyst, which can adjust the color if you need that ability, although I find the Weld Wood product easier to use, being simply mixed with water.

All in all, and having used both products in exactly the situation you describe, UF glues is the product I would reach for without question for laminating your table top with wood.

[-MIKE-]

Having not worked with either enough to know the reasons, I wouldn't mind some further explanation. Is it "creep" that is the problem with contact cement or does contact cement not work well with wood? Also, what exactly is creep and when does it happen, while drying or after? Is it solved by over-sizing the veneer and trimming after dried?

[dpb]

On 9/7/2012 9:34 PM, Puckdropper wrote: ...

Use a false table...

[Swingman]

In _my_ experience, for veneering/laminating _wood to wood_, as the OP is contemplating, it is better to use a glue that is not flexible and doesn't respond to heat after the fact. Contact cement remains relatively flexible after drying, and becomes more so when exposed to heat, even if it just sunlight through a window.

That's not to say that contact cement can't be used successfully in veneering/laminating, particularly when the substrate is something with more dimensional stability, like MDF.

Wood to wood, I prefer not to take the chance. This is simply my experience, YYMV.

Read the info in the link to David J.Marks site in my first post. There is a good explanation there ... much better than I can write. :)

[Swingman]

Here ya go, Mike ... did quick some research for you, this says it better than I can:

[-MIKE-]

>>>All great info, thanks!

[Leon]

I have found that with contact cement and even with a stable substrate and plastic laminate that heat will weaken the bond so much that the adhesion will fail. For example plastic laminate back splash behind a gas cook top. Also the reason my sister has tile behind her gas cook top now. ;~(

[Puckdropper]

Leon wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Sure would be nice if contact cement would work, it is available just about everywhere. I checked 3 places (2 Aces, and a Menards that was nearby) for the UF glue, and came up empty. Time to order it off the Internet.

Puckdropper

[Larry Blanchard]

Trying to plane to less than 1/8" can result in the wood breaking under the pressure from the planer knives. It'd be safer to use a thickness sander.

As far as gluing, I've had good luck with regular veneer using dried white glue (diluted 50-50) and a hot iron, but I don't know if enough heat would get through thicker veneer to reactivate the glue.

[dpb]

a) Perhaps but it's never happened to me...mostly it's to get the additional height when approaching the limit of the planer adjustment. I'd not try it w/ something terribly brittle but pine; no problems...

b) If one has one, yes...

--

[SonomaProducts.com]

a painting table for models. The "finish" was random bits of paint on the = bare plywood. Now that I've replaced the table with a bigger one, I'd like = to see about renewing the surface somehow. The paint was removed using a sa= nder, but there's still paint in the recesses that isn't going to come out = very easily. I was thinking about resurfacing the top with thick veneer cut= on the band saw. My planer only goes down to 1/8", so I'll probably aim to= cut to 3/16" then plane to 1/8". The material will probably be pine to mat= ch the rest of the table. I've got plenty of Titebond II that I can use for= this, but if it's not going to work all that well I could try something el= se like contact cement or maybe flooring glue. The easy way out is just to = paint the table, but I'd like to experiment with bandsawn veneers. The tabl= e was always intended to be a utility table, so I'm free to experiment. Any= advice or suggestions? Puckdropper -- Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Well, in a year that veneered top will need replacing also. I would buy som= e 1/2" mdf drop it down and sink some screws in countersinked holes on a 2 = foot grid. Rinse and repeat whenever the top gets too scared, etc. I have s= everal tables like this, even my dead flat torsion box assembly table. It h= as a hardwood applied apron that stands that extra 1/2 high and I pry out a= nd replace the old top every 6 months or so.