Replacing kitchen floor

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On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 22:57:36 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Vinyl is the best floor covering for a kitchen. It cleans up easily, wears well, very water resistant, installs easily, comes in endless colors and patterns. Seams/tiles can be trouble.
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Sometime you should check my oak floor - 20 years and still looks like new. P D Q
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wrote:

clare:
According to the following I think the OP did not have vinyl in mind. Rather "stone".

P D Q
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On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 14:14:28 -0600, Gordon Shumway

If you go back on top, with much more thickness, you may not be able to get the dishwasher back in.
Mike O.
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Almost always new construction these days, the cabinets go in before the floors. Putting a new floor in now and replacing the cabinets later is not a big deal. I do suggest that you build the new cabinets taller by the amount of the thickness of the new floor and if you have a dish washer extend the tile floor inside that cavity or build up the floor to the new floor height. When I have replaced existing kitchen and bath room cabinets and there is a taller tile floor, I let the toe kick plate hide any gap. The new cabinets simply set in the same spot that the old cabinets did except I build them taller by the height of the new floor.
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Why do I get the feeling that this is just a cost cutting move on the part of the builder?
At no time would I condone any scenario wherein the cabinets were installed before the finish floor. If I were having new flooring laid, I would also have the cabinets removed and re-installed after the lay.
P D Q
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Snip

Why do I get the feeling that this is just a cost cutting move on the part of the builder?
At no time would I condone any scenario wherein the cabinets were installed before the finish floor. If I were having new flooring laid, I would also have the cabinets removed and re-installed after the lay.
P D Q
Which begs the question, WHY would you want more expensive and never to be seen flooring to be under your cabinets? It is a cost cutter, one that makes sense. If you have you home recarpeted, do you remove all shoe moldings, base boards, and door sills so that you can put the carpet under them also?
What advantage is there in spending extra money on something that you will never see?
Just for fun, try to find a flooring store that will remove your cabinets before putting down a new floor. You will be lucky if you can find one that will actually remove "and" replace shoe molding.
Do you live in the USA?
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I don't agree. Once you go that route, you're locked into the exact placement of those cabinets. What happens if you want to put in new cabinets some time in the future? Unlikely they'd be the same size and shape. You'd be trying to hide areas where you didn't install flooring.
And certainly on a new build, it's much easier to install an entire floor than to take the time to modify and cut flooring to fit around cabinets installed before the flooring. Just doesn't make any sense. Maybe as a contractor, get the job done and get out, possibly. For something I'd build for my own use, certainly not.
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wrote in message

While you have valid questions, ther is no problem with putting in a different arrangement of cabinets. You simply patch in the floor if needed. The floor will have a match problem however if you uncover unexposed floor ther is going to present a match problem also.

It is not a good idea to expose a new floor to contractors coming in and out and dragging equipment across the floor. Fitting in a few cabinets is no more bother than going around wall corners, door ways, or sizing to a room, it might add 1% more work but that will be saved in not paying for floring that will not be used.
Just doesn't make any sense. Maybe as a

I suspect you might do it once but the second time around you would most likely do it the less expensive way.
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Upscale wrote:

Doesn't it depend on the situation? Flooring used to be a major expense, and it was something that could be resurfaced/refinished.
Now it seems to be something that is changed like lighting fixtures, whenever a new fad or style comes out, or when the walls are painted.
Seems to me, if someone is putting down linoleum or cardboard "hardwood," they're not the type of person who's going to care about the flooring going under the cabinets... or even dishwasher for that matter.
Depends on the customer, doesn't it? We've all had instances where our trying to convert the customer into someone who respects quality and craftsmanship the way we do, only comes across, to them, as us trying to increase the price of the job.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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Upscale wrote:

I've never seen a cabinet replacement job that didn't include a new floor, with the exception of antique wood floors which were going to be refinished. That's like buying new cabinets and keeping the old counter tops.
Most folks remodel _kitchens_, not cabinets.

Maybe, maybe not... It depends on the layout, materials, etc...
A large vinyl floor would require a long, straight seam that might end up in an inopportune place. Fitted around cabinetry, the seams are much easier to hide.
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Ok, let's forget the cheap alternatives for a moment. A vinyl floor IMHO, is relatively cheap in materials, easy to cut and easy to install. Let's go with tiling, slate tiling for example. Costs more, is more labour intensive to cut and one would not be as prone to replace it on a whim like you might do with vinyl.
What's the consensus there? Do the whole floor after the cabinets are removed or just tile up to existing cabinets? The disadvantage to tiling while the cabinets are in place is that there's a whole lot more fitting and cutting, alterations in the future might mean that slate is not produced anymore, but money saved on material costs. Or, take out the cabinets, do the whole floor, spend more on materials, but have an easier install?
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Upscale wrote:

The major problem with re-flooring a kitchen with a thick(er) material around existing cabinets is the flipping dishwasher. DAMHIKT
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This is something to consider however I have redone kitchens and have seen kitchens with added tile to the existing cabinets. 90% of the time the dishwasher comes out with out problems. You typically accomplish this by screwing in the front adjustment feet all the way and pulling it out. Once the front is out the back comes out pretty easily. Tall tiles or thick wood flooring may make this a bit harder but new home construction basically goes with the cabinets, then floor/counter top, then the appliances. Typically the appliances go in last so that they don't mysteriously disappear.
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Leon wrote:

I agree. The situation I had was moving into a house that had the kitchen floor redone with tile. The dishwasher needed to be replaced when the issue came up. Even with the front legs screwed all the way up, it was necessary to loosen the screws from under the cabinet fronts and pry the counter top loose. This wasn't easy as the counter tops had also been set in a silicone glue in addition to the screws. The alternative would have been removing the tiles directly in front of the dishwasher, but they were a 10" variety that I could find no replacements for and I knew I would break them in removal. It all worked out in the end, but my vocabulary was somewhat increased.
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Doug Winterburn wrote:

Imagine removing your cabinets?
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I hope you documented the CME credits, or continuing tile educcation credits, as the case may be.
--
Best regards
Han
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What Barry said.
I've tiled tons of kitchen floors for the best flooring store in my state. On remodels, only once were cabinets removed, and then only because they were water damaged and the folks (also filthy rich) were starting their kitchen over from scratch. Most of the potential problems many of you see with tiling only to the cabinets are no problem at all. Dishwashers go in and out easily due to the adjustable front legs, like someone else mentioned. None of the floors I've done had later issues.
Installing new cabinets later is almost never an issue. ALWAYS order extra tile, and maybe even keep your cut pieces. These can be used later if new cabinets expose a spot or two.
There is a reason for buying extra tile, other than the obvious future crack or break. You want all the tile, including extras for future fixes, to be from the same "die lot"....meaning, basically, made in the same batch. If you try to buy replacement tiles later down the road, sometimes even only a month later, the colors likely will not match perfectly, even with the exact same tile, because tilemakers can never quite duplicate perfectly the "die lot". Batches of the same tile, made at seperate times, rarely match perfectly, colorwise. You may not notice this, but I would.
I realize people here are foreseeing future issues, but save yourself some time and money and install up to the cabinets. Pros do it all the time, even on their own houses. Just caulk with the color of your choice under those toekicks.
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Dave S wrote:

Right! And even in the same lot, shuffle the contents of the boxes.
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Personally, I'd remove all the cabinets and put new flooring wall-to-wall. You know the advantages. Ask a flooring contractor how much cost difference there will be. They usually price flooring per square foot installed, but I don't know if they just calculate the room dimensions to get the square footage or do they deduct the cabinet's footprint?
Easy enough to ask. Then it's just a question of whether you think the cost difference (if any) is worth the possible later hassels.
It's interesting that in Europe it's fairly common for people to take all their kitchen cabinets with them when they move. So floors are finished to the walls, and new tenants/owners arrange their kitchen as they like when they move in.
Bill Ranck Blacksburg, Va.
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