Re: What do you put on a brown wood door facing the sun & rain?

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gregz wrote:

The opening is about 7 feet by 7 feet. The glass is two pane thick. The door itself is only 3 and one half feet wide and feels like solid. I do not think I want to paint. I want to stain to same color and then protect best.
In this picture taken right now you can see the two different stain color at the bottom of the door at the "sill" on bottom. http://www.freeimagehosting.net/aekp4
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Norminn wrote:

Yes. South. Sun all day. Rain blows in with wind. Always sun. Always rain. So I need best protection I can give the door. Plus it must be darker.
Here is the picture taken just now showing it already being wet outside. http://www.freeimagehosting.net/7et4h
I see you said not to use water based. I will use what people suggest so no water based varnish.
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x-no-archive: yes
what a beautiful door :)
Mike Lalonde - M&K Sudbury Ontario
"Tony Palermo" wrote in message
Norminn wrote:

Yes. South. Sun all day. Rain blows in with wind. Always sun. Always rain. So I need best protection I can give the door. Plus it must be darker.
Here is the picture taken just now showing it already being wet outside. http://www.freeimagehosting.net/7et4h
I see you said not to use water based. I will use what people suggest so no water based varnish.
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Bob F wrote:

I like the spar varnish idea.
Can I just add stain to the spar varnish to make it match the dark? http://www.freeimagehosting.net/ojz5l
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On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 01:48:51 +0000 (UTC), Tony Palermo

There's no reason to match the dark unless you like that on the outside. It's very nice wood, so take your time and see what looks best to you. Sometimes nice wood grain show best with a light stain. I had a similar entryway door and never touched it in the 14 years I lived there, and it still looked good. That peeling (I've heard it called "cellophaning") probably means water-based, and you don't want to use that. As other have said, use an oil-based "marine" varnish. I've read that a scraper and heat gun can help to remove cellophaning varnish, so you can minimize sanding work. That wood still looks to be in good shape so it looks like a fun project. You should be very pleased with the results of your work.
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Tony Palermo wrote:

I wouldn't use spar varnish as it is softer. I mentioned Z-Spar varnish but that is a brand name, not a type.

You could add universal coloring material to give color to the varnish but I wouln't add stain, too much cance for incompatibility.
In fact, I wouldn't stain at all. If you do and if you ever have to repair an area you will wish you had not stained. Varnish itself will darken the wood and give a lovely color.
You have a couple of black areas on the outside casing near the bottom. That is because the wood pieces are wicking up water; eventually (if not already) they will rot. Cutting off 1/8 - 1/4" from the bottoms will keep them from wicking up water.
Your sill is always going to be a problem as the constant wear from goings and comings will wear the finish much faster than the finish on the door and trim. If you ever get a chance, I'd replace the sill with tile as you have in the entry. That would be a fairly major job so not one you should undertake; if you ever need/want to change out the door and side lights, consider doing it then.
--

dadiOH
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dadiOH wrote:

I changed my mind...a marine spar varnish may give you some benefit. Any finish tends to crack at joints between boards going different directions (up/down - side/side) because the boards expand and contract in different directions. Spar varnish is more flexible so it *may* help that.
FYI, "spar" and "marine" are not synonymous. You can have spar varnish that is not marine and vice versa. The thing that makes a varnish "spar" is a greater amount of oil. More oil equals more flexibility and less hardness. The primary purpose of spar varnish was for - surprise - spars so that they could bend without cracking the finish. Somehow, with the help of certain manufacturers, people have come to believe that it is a superior varnish for all things. That is not true.
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dadiOH
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dadiOH wrote:

I had not thought of the word but this is what wikipedia says.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varnish#Spar_varnish
Spar varnish (also called marine varnish) was originally intended for use on ship or boat spars, to protect the timber from the effects of sea and weather. Spars bend under the load of their sails. The primary requirements were water resistance and also elasticity, so as to remain adhering as the spars flexed. Elasticity was a pre-condition for weatherproofing too, as a finish that cracked would then allow water through, even if the remaining film was impermeable. Appearance and gloss was of relatively low value. Modified tung oil and phenolic resins are often used.
When first developed, no varnishes had good UV-resistance. Even after more modern synthetic resins did become resistant, a true spar varnish maintained its elasticity above other virtues, even if this required a compromise in its UV-resistance. Spar varnishes are thus not necessarily the best choice for outdoor woodwork which does not need to bend in service.
Despite this, the widespread perception of "marine products" as "tough" led to domestic outdoor varnishes being branded as "Spar varnish" and sold on the virtue of their weather- and UV-resistance. These claims may be more or less realistic, depending on individual products. Only relatively recently have spar varnishes been available that can offer both effective elasticity and UV-resistance.
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I'd look here http://www.sikkens.us/en/Products/AvailableRetailers/Exteriors/Pages/default.aspx
Sikkens make some very good products, but being all wood, there is nothing that will last forever. Prepping it properly then using Sikkens and doing regular touch up and maintenance, it would hold up a long time
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walter wrote:

This is a great plan because it allows me to stain and restore the mahogany wood door.

This is interesting. I will look for it at Home Depot.
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On Friday, December 7, 2012 9:16:16 AM UTC-6, Tony Palermo wrote:

The doorway presently shows the finish is coming off in large random splotches. I don't think all of this is attributable to the sun and rain, especially higher up. Whatever finish (water based?) is presently on the surface, it seems to not be quite compatible with what's under it. Either 1) the present finish was applied without properly prepping the doorway, before application, or 2) the present finish was applied over a previous finish that isn't compatible with the present. Whichever the case, all needs to be removed by stripping and lots of sanding, to make sure you get down to bare wood.
As DadiOH has said, there is some maintenance issues to deal with, especially on the bottoms of the woodwork. If those areas get rained on regularly, then those areas may still be damp, somewhat. You may need to drape off the whole front entrance to prevent further moisture from affecting your work on the doorway, while you're working on it.... 2 weeks time?
If you don't want to trim those blackened areas, for repair or some other maintenance procedure, then you might consider treating those areas with denatured alcohol. Alcohol displaces water and denatured alcohol will evaporate faster than other alcohol products. Denatured alcohol is flamable, so keep flames/smoking from the area. If you elect to use this alcohol treatment, do so after your stripping and sanding.
That doorway will require lots of detailed hand sanding and edge sanding.... with an appropriate detail tool, if you elect to use a detail tool. I would not recommend using a more agressive sanding tool, than a detail tool, on your doorway. Scraping will likely need to be done, also, in appropriate areas. If you are not going to do this detailed work, and do it properly, then hire someone, a pro, to do the stripping, sanding, and prepping job, properly.
I would not use a spar varnish, either. Not only will it yellow with time, but I doubt it would last long enough to yellow, before it starts deteriorating, in those environmental conditions. I would use a good marine finish. I don't have the confidence in spar urethane, as it's touted to be, for your sun-rain conditions. I am familiar with WaterLox and I would recommend this for the doorway. I would thin it, a bit, and apply a thinned coating first, for it to be absorbed, more so, than non-thinned, then apply non-thinned coats.
Since the doorway is in that extreme(?) of environment, I would recommend a touchup coating of marine finish every 6-8 months.... lightly sand and apply the touchup finish coating. Don't wait for it to get bad, again, before attending to it.
You can't remove the sidelights, to work on them. I would recommend you remove the door, from the frame, to do whatever work needs to be done on it. Make sure you seal/finish the bottom edge of the door, also. You can't seal the bottom edge of the door with it in its hung position.
That's a nice $3K-$5K doorway/entrance. Don't skimp on the work that needs to be done. To repair and refinish that doorway, properly, will not take 2 days to do. It may take some good time, a week?, maybe more?, for a typical DIYer to do. Sonny
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Norminn wrote:

I don't think I have ever varnished anything before.

The door will get soaking wet from rain so this is important!

I have a Makita belt sander but I can not imagine using it on this door due to the ins and outs of the molding. I might use it on the sill but even then it might dig a huge hole before I know it. I am ok with hand sanding though.
I suspect I start with the heavy grit. And then down to fine. What is the heavy grit I should start from? Wikipeidia has a list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandpaper
Does P50 look like a good starting point? And maybe P220 as the final grit on the bare wood?
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On 12/7/2012 9:24 AM, Tony Palermo wrote:

Perhaps a more permanent solution, although a bit more expensive. You have an inherent problem, call it an architectural design flaw.
Construct something to shield the door from direct sunlight and rain, a covered approach.
The sunlight is doing more damage than the rain, it is there every day all day long, the rain is not.
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Leon wrote:

The roofline is tall above the door so I could construct a shade of some sort.
But I would still need to stain, seal, and varnish the door!
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On Friday, December 7, 2012 12:56:55 PM UTC-6, Tony Palermo wrote:

Leon may be on to something. If your doorway area can accommodate remodeling/adding to, to fend off the weather, and cost is not a problem, then remodeling would certainly help.
Why stain? The wood is naturally dark, already. More darkness, of the doorway, is not going to do much good, if any, for its protection against the elements. What is your concern, here, looks or protection against the elements? If your topcoat finish doesn't hold up against the weather, the stain under it is going to accomplish what?
A thinned marine finish (whichever one you choose) would be your initial sealant (apply two coats if there is doubt) and the subsequent non-thinned finish would be your (varnish) top coating. The thinned application and the non-thinned application are compatible, so you wouldn't have to worry about sealant-finish compatibility.
Sonny
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On 12/7/2012 12:56 PM, Tony Palermo wrote:

Yes you would still have to refinish the door however if yo keep the direct sun light off you are also likely to keep a majority of rain the rain off. However it is quite likely that this would be the last time you have to refinish the door. My previous home had a front door that was shaded from direct sun light and most of the rain, it never had to be refinished during the 30 years that I lived there.
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"Tony Palermo" wrote:

WHY?
You will come to regret stain (Bug Snot) unless you sell the place and pass the problem along.
Spar varnish is designed to remain flexible which is why it is used on wooden spars. Definitely not a good choice for a door.
Sonny has outlined the path to glory.
A LOT of work, but truly the only way to go.
The marine finish of choice would be Epifanes.
Check out Jamestown Distributors for Epifanes info.
BTW, where is this property located as in how far South of the Mason-Dixon Line?
Have fun.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

But UV protection might not be easy to decide from the can printing.

Does this look like the right stuff? http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid
Epifanes clear marine spar varnish is formulated with tung oil, phenolic and alkyd resins and U.V. filters for superior protection.

San Diego. It never rains. But when it rains it pours.
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

------------------------------------------------------- "Tony Palermo" wrote:

Nothing is wrong with a darker color, but let Mother Nature provide it.
If you EVER have to make a repair of a damaged part that has been stained, you will cuss the day you ever used stain on that door.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Mikey likes it <grin>. ----------------------------------------------------------

Tell me about it, I'm in LA.
BTW, lots of good marine suppliers in S/D.
San Diego Marine Exchange for one.
Have fun.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

We all learn that eventually, don't we? Unfortunately, we generally learn it the hard way :(
Stain is a spawn of the devil.
--

dadiOH
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