Re: Should I get a refund on these chisels?

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I have to ask. What kind of slamming did you do to the chisels. I keep reading similar posts in the news group. I conclude that the wood is very hard or . . .
I'm not an expert, but I have built two rocking chairs with over 40 m&t joints each, using blue handled marples bench chisels and never had that kind of problem. One chair was walnut and the other was mesquite.
I'm curious if technique might have some bearing on all these bad chisels we keep hearing about. (Not you, but many other wood workers)
Having written the nonsense above, FWW has a video by Jim Cummings, "Small Shop. Tips and Techniques". It deals with many things, one of which is sharpening chisels and includes a very good session on removing the temper from the steel, shaping the steel as required and then setting the proper temper.
Also as I re-read my post, I'll add the following.
I keep a leather strop, charged with a sharpening compound close at hand. When an edge develops a burr, a couple of passes on the strop normally takes care of it. I don't use scary sharp techniques. I prefer diamond EZ-lap hones. I suppose I expect chisels to turn under with use. I think the burring issue is why many wood workers use micro bevels. I typically do not use them, but on one of my hand planes I do use it.
:-)
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once, in the distant past, buck made nice edge tools. that time is long gone.
you might try giving them a few more honings- if the factory grind burned the steel you will need to hone past it.
at best you'll end up with a decent utility set.
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No... these are new_old_stock Buck Bros. bench chisels. If you go to http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/ you'll read the story there. Quite a nice find really. These blades were made in the 60's and were found in factory storage at The Riverlin Works. I use the "Scary Sharp" method.
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Alex
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ayup. sorry about that, brain fart.
I'd still not give up on them based on the first honing.
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Thanks but nothing was based on the first honing, I did just fine.
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Alex
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AAvK wrote:

From the web site: "Today, 140 years later, quality chisels are still produced at the Riverlin Works."
Danger! Danger Will Robinson!
I don't think I'd trust these people.
--RC
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Oh why oh why pray tell? What do you know that everyone else doesn't? Is that Riverlin works long gone?
Take a look at the Deifenbacher website, he sells chisels that are his own brand, and are as well identical to these Bucks. They are still being produced (Bill Kohr could be fibbing in which case...who knows), site: http://www.diefenbacher.com/Chiselink.htm
This concerning craftsmanstudio.com for what he says about his Bucks is something to think about.
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AAvK wrote:

Because Buck Brothers has been making absolute crap for years. Any merchant who would praise the quality of their current tools is, shall we say, suspect.

--RC
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...hhmmm... I have an old mid 90's article on chisel steel testing and testing for use by known woodworkers, back then (in that article) the Buck steel tested to be "barren" plain steel, not special at all though it was chosen by one woodworker for how it was made.
In the 60's it was a real and acceptable tool steel. I agree with that because I have sharpened the ones I bought, my OP here of the 6th paragraph states why. I really believe these days they have improved their steel though. That article was about 9-1/2 years ago or so.
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On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 03:14:03 GMT, the inscrutable Rick Cook

But didn't they say "new 'OLD stock'", Rick? I couldn't wait to use single quotes with you, BTW. <ww,nn,saynomore>
-- Life's a Frisbee: When you die, your soul goes up on the roof. ---- http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
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Lowell Holmes wrote:

to have

these
it
a
m&t
that
The typical complaint about Marples is the opposite of his complaint about the vintage Bucks. Marples tend not to hold an edge implying that they are too soft, hence the frequent honing you reccommend.
Perhpas the Buck should be ground to a steeper angle. Unless they paring chisels in which case you shouldn't pound on them in the first place.
--

FF


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That was my point. If the chisels are adequately sharp, you don't need to "pound" on them. I use a wooden mallet when making mortises. I never have to pound on them to chop the mortises. It doesn't require that kind of force. I have old wooden handled Stanleys, more modern plastic handled Stanleys, wooden handled Soligan steel, Robert Sorby, Marples, and some others. None of them require heavy handling.
If the chisel is burring when it is used, I'd think the steel tends to be more ductile, if it chips, more brittle.
However, having said all that dumb stuff <G>, I keep reading posts about people destroying their chisels. I just wonder what they are doing to cause that, Tag Frid didn't pound his and in the videos I've watched, Frank Klausz gives them a sharp rap, but nothing destructive. Rob Cosman doesn't beat his either. It is a re-occurring complaint though.
I think I remember someone complained about Two Cherry's, and you can find detractors for all those I mentioned.
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Try a Stubai chisel, superlative. But, have you ever chopped into douglas fir? It has grain that is seriously thick with a rubber-like hardness. You'd wind up doing a bit of slamming.
The Stubai, as I said, did not take burs. I think when I used the 2" Buck chisel it was the wideness of the blade causing too much resistance, the Stubai being only 1" (26mm). Same reasoning behind making a proper low angle block plane's blade 1-3/8" wide rather than 1-5/8" wide, less resistance on end grain.
As with chopping into the DF wood, these were the "cheeks" that are around the tenons, which is end grain. Very tough stuff.
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I'm not sure what DF wood is. I have a scrap of fir in the shop. I'll have to chop a large mortise in it to see how it goes.
When I build wooden fence gates, I put a header across the gate posts at 90" above grade. I make the connections in the 4"treated pine M&T joints. I was using a 2" carpenter's slick but some previous owner has lost the wooden handle and generations have struck the steel socket with a steel hammer. I decided this both dangerous and sacrilegious. I went to the local hardware man and purchased a 2" plastic handled Stanley no. 60 (recent manufacture) After giving it the treatment, the chisel performed reasonably well chopping mortises in the treated pine (with it's wet stringy fibers).
My strop is a piece of rawhide glued to a flat board. I have a "brick" of wax impregnated with aluminum oxide. The strop is charged with this compound. This waxy surface will almost polish the edge to a mirror sheen. I wouldn't want to use a nice horsehide strop in that manner either. Each of us use the sharpening technique we like and I certainly was not impugning those that scary sharpen their tools. :-)
I think obviously you are not satisfied with the Buck Brothers chisels. With you having examined the conditions surrounding their use, I think conversation with the people that sold them to you would be appropriate, to determine if they thought your set is defective. I would be inclined to take some of the hardness out of your chisels and see if it made an acceptable difference. See the Jim Cummings tape to learn the technique.
I hope you get it worked out. :-)
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Douglas Fir, here in California it is the only standard construction lumber for house and small building framing. I believe it is in the pine family. It has a very wide open and knotty grain, irregular grain but there is the straight grain and knot free cuts as well, more expensive. The color is very orange.
You would not dare use the basic knotty cuts for fine work in any genre. I am using it for the trestle of my first woodworking bench. The top however, will be hard sugar maple. In the grain of DF, the harder ribs of grain can be extremely tough.

I have an old Stanley 200 series 1/4" currently made, and the replacement model for 60 series is the current 900 series. On the website, both product listings for 900 and 200 say that the steel is "ball bearing grade", well this 200 I have simply grinds down like chalk when scary sharpening. I hope your 60 is better than that.
But, modern factory chisels like that are made for exactly what you are using it for, construction work. Not dovetails and benchtop work.
The current Buck bros. chisels have a plastic handle and a black steel cap and a thinner blade, there is a fellow in my adult ed. class using one for dovetail work on a large mahogany blanket chest, as he bought it accidentaly intending to pick up a stanley, he has no complaints as i spoke with him about his opinion on it.

I bought the horse butt just for stropping, I just wouldn't use it for burs. No impugnation taken. It is the only leather I have right now. Get your self a rip of it, thin and smooth perfect and very high quality, link: http://www.brettunsvillage.com/leather/sides.htm Scroll down to "North of Cordovan", large piece for the money, that's a yard sitting on them in the picture.

I'll keep'em. The wider blade merely meant more resistance. Thanks for the great reply too, kinna hard for me to get one in this n-group.
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I definitely got the micro bevel steep enough... these chisels are the bench chisels,made by Buck Bros. in the 60's sold as new old stock, RC 59.
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AAvK wrote:

How do you know how hard they are? Your photos of the edges over in the binaries group show all the signs of too-soft steel. If they were really RC 59 I'd think they'd be more likely to chip the edge than curl it. That would be true even if they were sharpened too acutely to use with a mallet, like paring chisels.
If you're relying on what Buck Bros told you about the hardness, well. .
--RC
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I only know by what http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/ says about them. RC 59. But thanks for the tip... neither Buck Bros. nor the Riverlin works has a website. You are saying stuff without reading the rest of the thread brudda...
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AAvK wrote:

Uh wrong. I've been following the thread with some interest, after I saw the pictures you posted.
--RC
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Yer right Rick, me stands corrected. Thanks for all the replies.
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