Re: SawStop files with GPO/CPSC for mandatory use in US

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That too. But Mercedes and BMW and my 97 Chev PU have governed top speeds. This is done through RPM restrictions in top gear in particular. My 97 and my friends 96 ChevPU would only go strongly to about 95 mph and then stall out until the vehicle speed reached about 90. Change out the PROM and that limit can be defeated.
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Yeah, if that is what it takes for "me" to be able to buy one in the future. Although, no one would be forced to buy a TS. While this may sound self centered, no more so than those that oppose the idea of government intervention in this particular case to simply prove a point. The point is taken and accepted into consideration... I'll go with the government in this case because I still want to do wood working and have the added safety.
You personally sound like.....
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Leon wrote:

I've got a better idea: Every saw manufacturer should offer this and other safety products as reasonably priced options for each model of saw. You get to choose what safety options you want installed on it, or choose none if that's what you want.
But wait, there's a problem with that. The problem is that there IS no product that competes with the SawStop device and probably won't be until the patent runs out as the patent is pretty comprehensive and it's not easy to make an end run around one that covers the whole concept so thoroughly.
It's freedom of choice, Leon. I won't be denied mine. If you want to lose that freedom to choose, that's your business.
CJ
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Sounds good to me.

I wonder why the electric break on so many miter saws could not be beefed up to perform as well as the saw stop. A simple pin ingauges a hole in the blade or arbor and stops the blade. No, I have not read the whole petition but From what every one is saying, I would be inclined to think that the petition requires "LIKE" or better performance and not the same way to achieve "LIKE " performance. A little imagination should acomplish the same thing.

Well Chris if you loose the choice to buy a new saw with the modifications or not, you will still have the choice to voice you openion.
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You're contradicting yourself, you know. All along, you have maintained quite strenuously that the available safety features should be mandated by the government, and not left to the purchaser's discretion.

Think for a moment or two. It's gonna take a pretty stout pin to stop a blade driven by a 3HP motor, and spinning at 4000 rpm.

Nobody needs to lose that choice. The product is available *now*, and everyone has the choice. If you want it, buy it.
The problem I see is that I don't want it, not at the current price, but *you* think that I should be *forced* to buy it next time I buy a table saw. Tell you what: since you think it's so important for me to have one, you can buy it for me. How's that sound?
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Save the baby humans - stop partial-birth abortion NOW
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>

and how are you going to find, then hit, that moving hole? also, won't you have to wait for at least 50% blade to rotate past (on average)?

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If I am going to have to splain and figure all this out I might as well petition the government to go with my ideas...;~) Imagine... a hole every 5 or 10 degrees along the perameter of the blade.. This just popped into my head... Oh and the pin should be pointed so that it will go right in ...
How about the table tip simply jumps up 4 inches with hydraulics. The blade has not moved or stopped but the table simply raised instantly above the blades cutting capacity.
Imagine if some one spent a year thinking about a better saw stop...
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Leon wrote:

If the table jumped that high, fast enough to make a difference, you'd have two to five hundred pounds of cast iron flying up and hitting you in the face, which would be just about as bad as shaking hands with the blade.
Not a great idea.
CJ
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Think about it.
You'd need to move a cast iron table top four inches in maybe ONE millisecond?
That's a foot every three milliseconds, or 333 and a third feet per second! That works out to a little more than 227 miles per hour!
The table would disintegrate under the stresses and you'd need a few hundred horsepower to drive the table that hard anyway!
CJ
Leon wrote:

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Yeah so what is the problem here....I got 600 hp driving my saw..;~)
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On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:37:33 GMT, "Leon"

The physics of bringing a blade to a stop quickly enough to avoid serious injury pretty much dictate that you will destroy the mechanism and probably the blade in the process. Any shaft-braked system would put so much force into the stopping mechanism it would likely break the shaft, as you beef up the shaft to get around that problem you are increasing the rotating mass that you have to stop. It is also imperative that any system disengage the motor in the same instant, and it really needs to be a positive disengage, not merely slacking a belt because there is plenty of drag from even a loose belt.
The biggest challenge is that there is really no system other than the one SawStop uses that is acceptable for detecting contact with a finger or something. The use of that technology in that application seems to be part of their patent.
Were I running SawStop I'd license the technology to any manufacturer who wanted it for $5.00 a saw. All I would have to do then is sit back and cash checks, something that even I could do. If the license fee is low enough and the perceived benefit high enough the manufacturers will diddle the technology to make it cheaper and more efficient. Everybody wins until someone actually comes up with a system that works as well and is outside the original patent.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
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I hope so... I would rather have the choise but I'll take it either way.

Hopefully the company will survive.

Or a $2200. Powermatic....

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So buy the damned saw, if you think it's so important. Just don't force the rest of us to buy something we don't want.
Hypocrite.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Save the baby humans - stop partial-birth abortion NOW
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wrote:

or shill.
-zach
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On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 01:58:23 GMT, "Leon"
<snip>

No kidding... You think? You know, if the gov required toilet seats to be mounted on the hood of all new cars - the, yes there would suddenly be a market for that "feature".
-zach
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<snip>

<snip>
Then you missed the entire point. Try "I have the right to use dangerous equipment safely and not be fined because some fools are to careless to use the same equipment safely".
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I think you missed my point. SawStop and seatbelts mandated by the government are both to force the manufacturers to provide safety measures that they otherwise would not. Both add to the cost of the product. Both can be used or not used by the consumer. The ONLY differences here are that SawStop will add much more, percentage wise, to the price of the saw than seatbelts add to the price of a car, and seatbelts can be passively bypassed by simply not using them, whereas SawStop has to be actively bypassed by disabling the device.
On a separate note, from what I have heard liability insurance adds so much to the cost of any power tool that in the (not too) long run we should make up most of the difference.
-Chris
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snipped-for-privacy@mybluelight.com (Chris) wrote: [snip]

But that's _exactly_ what $aw$top has petitioned the CPSC to do: pass a law that, in effect, requires consumers to use their product.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Save the baby humans - stop partial-birth abortion NOW
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Jesus Leon, this isn't about safety, it's about the company and potentially the government telling you how YOU can use YOUR tablesaw in YOUR house. You may be OK with this, but I'm not. It's got nothing to do with safety. I'm responsible for me. You're responsible for you. You can shake your head at me all you want to if I'm not acting in a safe manner but nothing....nothing gives YOU the right to tell me how I should act. Same goes for this Sawstop company...
When Sawstop first came out with the product most people in this group did a collective "wow!!". Everyone wanted to learn more and most thought it was a great idea. I was included in that group and I'm STILL included in that group. I think that the Sawstop on the market today is an early version of what could become a really good addition to my table saw allowing it to be a safer tool. The key here, is that it's MY choice, not yours (or the governments) to use it.
Side note. In Britain, dado blades are illegal. Why? Because the Government decided they were too dangerous and the WW community didn;t stand up and say "take a hike". You may want to live in that sort of society but not me Leon...not me.
Rob

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Wellll gollee Rob,
I thought it was about safety, my safety to be precise... And, you don't have to be OK with it. Its a free country, feel the way you like. In this case I think it is the right thing to do. And, act the way you want, that does not bother me. The way you think doe not bother me at all. You are entitled to your thoughts the same as I am.

I remember most every one knocking it because they felt it would instill a false sense of security, which it may.
I was included in that group and I'm STILL included in that

Never have I ever indicated that you should buy a TS with this product. You should not have to buy anything if you dont want.... but if the only way to get a TS is with the extra safe guard, you very well may have a decision to make. Get one with this feature or get a used one. It's your choice and no one is forcing you to buy either one.

And yet you probably drive a car with government mandated air bags and seat belts and you even probably have a law requiring you to wear the seat belts.............hummm This really is no different.
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