Re: Petition Sawstops Directly

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how this

saying
Airbags and seatbelts protect you from other people's carelessness over which you have no control. Tablesaw safety is not affected by outside factors unless you have someone come into your shop and randomly turn the saw on and off.
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The most significant difference to me is that I don't recall seat belts and air bags being patented and held as intellectual property by just one company.
Phil
tnfkajs wrote:

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Kevin P. Fleming wrote:

There are plenty of companies that make airbags and seatbelts. There's COMPETITION, not a monopoly. That's not so bad.
CJ
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this
Ah ha! I knew there was a reason I agreed with all of you! :)
Seriously - missed that cogent point of the thread.
Ok - so if the Feds mandate SawStop then they should force SS to license the technology for a pittance. Then we let competition back into the mix. We should end up with better and cheaper SawStop clones.
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It doesn't, other than the issue of patent-protected exclusivity.

I don't know about David, but it surpassed "enough" with the very first law protecting people from themselves. On a national (U.S.) level, that was probably the first regulations of narcotics in the 1930s (?).
Kevin
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Saw stop is petitioning to have their device legislated as mandatory equipment on all table saws sold in the US. When the device first came out I was behind them 100% but I have no tolerance for this type of "marketing" and as such have removed my support from them. If you want more info, the actual petition is on Sawstop's own web site and you can draw their own conclusions.
Good luck Rob

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I like the part in the petition where they state that the average consumer does not have enough information to make an informed choice, but the CPSC does have enough information. If they truly believed that, they could publish the information to the general public to help educate them, and then see if their product is purchased. This could be accomplished by including an information pamphlet with each saw instead of the complete system already installed.
It sounds like they just do not believe in the marketability of their own product enough to use fair market practices.
wrote:

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says...

... the mark of the true statist, the opinion that the "general public" is just too @#$% stupid and ignorant to know what is good for it.

but the government (i.e. the state) is an all-knowing, all-wise, and beneficient entity that needs to coddle and mother the poor doddering fools under its care to keep them from hurting themselves or others.
Pretty sickening attitude IMNSHO.

Having failed to win the market, they now turn to using the iron fist of government to accomplish their ends.
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Side note. Sawstop used to be one of the vendors that frequented and was welcomed to this forum. That stopped when they started to hear what they didn't want to hear...that the WW community was turning against them because of the way they're choosing to goto market... Guess they weren't "real" woodworkers after all..
Rob

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Do not forget that the new cartridges are $69 each. I don't know what hitting that aluminum block does to your sawblade. If you do some math it hardly sounds effective for a lot of the situations you would want it to protect against. They claim that it will cut 1/8" if you are moving at 1 foot per second. So move at 4 ft per second and you get a 1/2 inch cut - OUCH!. When a hand slips I usually find it is moving far faster than 1 foot per second. I can easily imagine it moving ten times that fast.
Oh, and Leon, even with an 1/8 cut you might still require a trip to the emergency room, you might be spared some of the rehabilitation though.
-Jack
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not
one
get
at
Yeah, if the blade is moving at 4000rpm and the reaction time is 5 milliseconds, all those sharp little teeth make a full revolution+. It's a lot easier, cheaper and less painful to be careful. :-) -- Ernie
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A lot of unknows come into play here. I agree that falling from the 29th floor or the 32nd floor is not going to make a huge difference in the outcome, but 12 teeth versus a full speed blade may be the difference of a slicing afinger or lopping off a whole hand.
I've not studies table saw accidents so I don't know the probability of the various injuries and what may be prevented. Do you?

I think the resultand safety can be measured; studies would have to be (or already have) to be done. What exactly do you mean by complexity that can decrease safety? From what I've seen, the complexity is hidden and is not obstructive to the operator. What have you seen different? Ed
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Unless they're using a clamping/braking system, that 1/3 of a rotation *will* be at full speed. Any type of pin or tooth-catching pawl will stop the blade instantly from the moment it's inserted into the appropriate hole. A brake will slow the blade with decreasing velocity.
I understand the SawStop system causes an instant stop, but there is naturally some delay between trigger and stop. Between those two, there's 1/3 of a blade rotation at full speed.

No I don't. Neither do the folks at SawStop. Maybe God does, but the rest of us don't have the gift of omiscience. No one can predict the many variables that might be in play when a blade contacts skin.
Kevin
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the
You can read in their petition that they expect a gov't funded study to find out more about table saw injuries. It is nice when you can get the government to do your research for you.
-Jack
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not
one
Ever been to a speed shop, a hot rod/motorcycle show or a dragstrip? What people do to machinery on their own is largely outside the law. It would make some interesting test cases, though. -- Ernie
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money
them.
by
saw.
way
what
sure. next time you're there, ask them what the penalty is for disabling an airbag (without proper authorization), venting freon, or removing a catalytic converter and putting in a straight pipe. granted, one has to be caught, but don't you think there'll be ts police?
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do
SawStop
to
the
fortune
What
an
I'd love to see them try to get a warrant. -- Ernie
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Charlie Self wrote:

They must be. If they were liberal leaning Democrats they would be trying to push through a tax bill to make everyone pay for the SawStop, even if they didn't own a tablesaw.
-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA
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Jack Novak writes:

Yeah, but as it is, they'll force them on everyone, and the Republicans will borrow enough money to give to the rich to make sure they can afford at least three.
Charlie Self
If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave it to. Dorothy Parker
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ROTFLMAO>>>

to
didn't
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