Re: OT (yeah, right!): Politics

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Oh yes I remember Bill Clinton practically invented "executive directed " didn't he and even used it to invade that world power Hait and install his little puppet Aristeed.
So are you inferring that the "patriot act" changes the constitution from one to another ? mjh

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When we get the Constitution back, will we get the Second Amendment, too? Will unborn babies get the right to life? Will we get back the money we spend on welfare, public schools, public housing, WIC, and Social Security? Will we get back property rights usurped by the EPA?
Hell, I'd be willing to vote Democrat, if they could do that!
--
Kevin
-=#=-

"LRod" < snipped-for-privacy@pobox.com> wrote in message
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says...

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Well, that should certainly silence any critics, two absolutely impeccable witnesses remain, one a politician, the other a reporter. I'm convinced.
... snip

So now no further criticism should be leveled since, after all, the records are going to be rife with error, and only the memories of those who were there is really all we have to go by. ... and since they are "strained" memories, who knows who is right or wrong?
... snip

... and just *who* brought it up? Yeah, I know, when Kerry or the left make a statement, no one should question it -- it happened, leave it at that. The right (or even middle) should have let it alone when Kerry told everyone he was a war hero and thus fit to lead the country. How dare anyone question that? ... After all, what is the word of a retired navy admiral and several retired navy captains in addition to others who served with him? Why they pale to insignificance vs. the word of a politician and a reporter.

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On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 18:15:51 -0700, Mark & Juanita

You should be. They were there. You and all the other critics weren't.

My question is, why would someone who wasn't there question it? Can they offer alternative evidence? No.
I can just see this conversation about 50 years ago when I was old enough to ask my dad what he did in the war.
LRod:    What did you do in the war, dad?
Dad:    I flew on 35 missions in B-17s over Europe.
LRod:    Yeah, right. Did you get any medals?
Dad:    Air Medal with 7 oak leaf clusters, and some others.
LRod:    I'll bet. You probably got a couple of those when you were up slow-timing some engines.
Some fathers would have leveled the child at that point. Mine would have just looked at me like I was an idiot, thought to himself, "well, son, I was there; you weren't," and walked away.
I'm looking at you now, I know you weren't there. Good bye.
- - LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
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wrote:

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wrote:

So one of the OFFICERS is now missing, and thus there are only two OFFICERS left to testify to the event . What happened to the 15 CREW members, are they also all gone ? mjh
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Mike Hide responds:

The crew men on Kerry's boat seem to all agree with his version.
Charlie Self "Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
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wrote:

Never said I was there; the other 250 swift boat vets who served with Kerry have said they were there, numerous eyewitnesses to the various events being recounted. You weren't there either, how do you know who saw what, other than the fact that the one (1) reporter who is saying what you want to hear while the other 250 witnesses, many of them decorated veterans themselves, aren't saying what you want to hear?
Your analogy not only limps, it was DOA -- I have never claimed to be an eyewitness to those events. For your analogy to even be close, you should replace your LROD comment of "    I'll bet. You probably got a couple of those when you were up slow-timing some engines." with "But 15 of your fellow crewmembers said you really got that medal when you were up slow-timing some engines." At least that would be halfway close to the situation being discussed.
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On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 18:15:51 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:

What you have to ask yourself, pilgrim, is if they were lying back in the war, when they wrote all those glowing accounts of Kerry's bravery and competence, or if they are lying now, when they say he isn't fit to lead this country. It has to be one or the other.
Here's an interesting question. If, as they claim, they are not Bush supporters, just folks who are appalled by the idea of Kerry becoming President, why didn't they make their charges back in the primary season, when they could have influenced the Democrats to pick another and more acceptable candidate? Hmmm? I mean, if they aren't really working for Bush? In fact, why didn't any of these guys pop out of the woodwork decades ago during one of Kerry's prior campaigns? No, no, they wait until Kerry gets into a position where he might defeat Bush. Only then do they start remembering all the reasons Kerry is unfit to serve the people.
What does that tell you about their claims of being nonpolitical?
It smells fishy to me.
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Well, if you read their accounts, they *didn't* write those glowing accounts. It seems that Kerry, being PAO (Public affairs officer) wrote a number of those reports himself. Have you read their website? In addition,these men all signed affadavits regarding the authenticity of their accounts and included those affadavits with the package sent to radio stations so that those stations would air the paid advertisements. Seems that the same radio stations had no such requirements for other commercials such as those sponsored by moveon.org.

Well, according to several of them, they have been trying for months to get the press to take an interest in their story -- they approached numerous media outlets and were rebuffed by all of them. So, maybe if the media had picked up on this earlier, that might have happened, hmmm?

Well, perhaps if you had spent time as a POW being tortured to sign a confession admitting to war crimes and then had John Kerry do that for free in front of the Senate, maybe you'd have a bit of an axe to grind too. Seems like these guys aren't so much for Bush, but wanting people to know what they are getting if they pick Kerry.

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On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 21:46:34 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:

I'll give you just one example:
In the ad by Swift Boat Veterans, George Elliot said: : "John Kerry has not been honest about what happened in Vietnam."
In 1969, when he was writing Kerry's fitness report, he said: "In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action, LTJG Kerry was unsurpassed. He constantly reviewed tactics and lessons learned in river operations and applied his experience at every opportunity. On one occasion, while in tactical command of a three boat operation his units were taken under fire from ambush. LTJG Kerry rapidly assessed the situation and ordered his units to turn directly into the ambush. This decision resulted in routing the attackers with several KIA. LTJG Kerry emerges as the acknowledged leader in his peer group. His bearing and appearance are above reproach. He has of his own volition learned the Vietnamese language and is instrumental in the successful Vietnamese training program. During the period of this report LTJG Kerry has been awarded the Silver Star medal, the Bronze Star medal, the Purple Heart medal (2nd and 3rd awards)."
Lying then or lying now? You make the call.
It's okay for these men to dislike Kerry for his politics. Who could blame them? Kerry put a lot of energy into convincing the world that all their blood and sacrifice was in an ignoble cause. But when they stoop to claiming the exact opposite of what they once said, on the record, I can't credit anything they say now. And it's an act that dishonors all veterans. I spent a year in Vietnam, and I despise what these men have done. It's sleazy, and it's unfortunately the standard campaigning style of the Bush team. I still remember with disgust what they did to John McCain back in 2000. It's pretty hard to attack the war record of a man who spent many years as a POW, so they spread rumors that his mind had been affected by his terrible experiences in Hanoi. After all, we don't want a lunatic at the helm of our Ship of State. Or maybe the North Vietnamese brainwashed him. Don't want a Manchurian Candidate. Or, the infamous pushpoll in which likely voters were asked, "would you vote for McCain if you knew he'd fathered an illegitimate black child?" Turns out he and his wife adopted a dark-skinned child from Bangladesh, so I guess it wasn't really a dirty lie.
Sorry if I'm too aggressive about this, but I truly despise liars.
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ray responds (heavily snipped):

I have to wonder how closely Kerry's denunciations came on the heels of My Lai and the screwball Calley. That convinced a lot of people the cause wasn't noble.
In any case, Kerry wasn't alone, nor the first, nor the worst, nor the noisiest. It was an insane era brought on by another politician's war.
Charlie Self "Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
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Isn't it funny, we have another KerrEy who was on the 9-11 comittee that did virtually the same as Lt Calley did like John Kerry he is also a US senator.....
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Mike Hide responds:

Calley's feat was simple: non-leadership and then cover-up. There's a lot of that going around. Always has been and very likely always will be.
But to say that Bob Kerrey was in charge of troops who killed possibly as many as 500 civilians is stretching a point more than a little. You need to refresh your memories of mid-March '68 and the courts martials in '70s.
Charlie Self "Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
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<snip>

I find it fascinating that no one denounces former Defense Secretary Robert MacNamara for having the courrage to admit "we were wrong" about Viet Nam -- but it seems to be OK (and downright fashionable!) for the galloping goons to besmirch John Kerry for his much earlier anti-war testimony.
Steve www.apachetrail.com/ww
--
WRONG begins with Dubya

There's a Dubya in every AWOL
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Last I heard, McNamara is not running for public office trying to use his Vietnam record as his qualifications for the office. What am I missing here? In addition, McNamara didn't issue his apology while troops were still in harm's way.

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OK, fine, I'll denounce him, if it will make you happy -- the SOB is a traitor, shoulda been stripped of his citizenship and sent to Hanoi.
Feel better now?
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
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Doug Miller responds:

Prolly not. McNamara came along 20 years after he was responsible for many, many deaths and did his mea culpa to promote a book.
Not a nice guy, but not germane to the discussion, either.
Still, Kerry's testimony was a lot milder than the Republicans like to present.
Charlie Self "A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers." H. L. Mencken
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Charlie Self wrote:

I can't believe that for once you've said something in the political domain that I agree with.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
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