Re: OT (yeah, right!): Politics

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wrote:

What does military service have to do with being a good president? Mr. Bush is president yet spent his time serving (?) in the Guards, and IIRC since 1960 only Presidents Kennedy, Carter, and Bush 1 served in the regular military. Several presidents served in the Civil War, but that was no indicator of their abilities--in fact Grant, the most famous of them, was a notoriously poor president.
Today's news revealed that one of the men associated with the ads attacking Kerry has resigned as a volunteer to Bush's campaign. It's a struggle to keep in mind that the goal is to be elected, and that after the election everyone will forget the attacks and resume business as usual. During the election, of course, the faithful on either side believe fully in the truth of their own ads, and assume that the other side is lying. But is makes no difference what party does it, I'm damn sick of the scurrilous stories being circulated about "the other guy." Run on your public service record and on the issues.
Yeah, right.
Bob
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Grover Cleveland hired a man to take his place in the Army during the Civil War, a practice that was legal at the time.
Ford served in the Navy, and Reagan in the Army Air Force (motion picture unit, he made movies for the Army). Johnson was also a Lt commander in the Navy in WWII, and was assigned in some capacity to FDR's staff. He received a Silver Star for riding as an observer in an aircraft that returned to base due to engine trouble without seing combat.
Clinton was the first non-veteran president since FDR.
--

FF

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Whichever side, I would like some facts to be clarified . Kerry apparently has decided to run on his Vietnam service rather than his antiwar actions after it or his 20 odd years service in the congress.
I would like the following answered without someone immediately changing the subject because the question is not to their likening or they do not know the answer....
Many times on TV the reporters refer to Kerry's TWO tours of duty in Vietnam . Was a tour reduced to 6 weeks at that time . I now guys that went in for one and spent 2 years there .
I hear reporters say Kerry enlisted to go to Vietnam, which as far as I am concerned is true . No mention is made that after being deferred to complete his law degree, and at that point being eligible for the draft, he requested another deferment so he could go to France, it was denied. At that point he was going to Vietnam regardless . At the time if you had a college degree you had the option of enlisting and still going to Vietnam but as an officer or just being subject to the draft and going as a grunt. As an officer at least one had some small control over ones destiny [not the least the ability to make medal commendations ].
Finally who actually did make Kerry's medal commendations. As far as "purple heart" requirements are concerned ,does the action have to be under fire ?
No mention of his brother Cameron [I think he also goes by the adopted name Kerry] who is in touch with the Israeli government as brings him frequent news of the middle east . No mention of anything by Kerry on the middle east except of Iraq......mjh
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Mike Hide notes:

No. If they went for one, it was 13 months.
If the went longer, they signed up for it. I've got a friend who did most of two tours in the Airborne...caught phosphorus in the forehead and decided to take the ticket home.

No. He was going in the Army, if he was drafted. He might or might not have gone to 'Nam. There was enough in-service finagling, just as there is during every war, to allow most people to stay well away from combat locales, never mind actual combat. There's another point that no one seems to recognize: for every grunt, otherwise known as a combat troop, there are from 7 to 9 support people keeping that grunt fed, in ammo, generally supplied and healthy. So going into a combat area such as 'Nam does not automatically mean you're going to get shot at. Going into an outfit like swift boats does. I wonder if that was voluntary?

Young officers tend to have the highest mortality rate.

Is his brother running for something?
Charlie Self "Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
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Not sure Charlie, since Sandy Burger has made an idiot of himself, how about sec of state. right now he is right under the radar...mjh

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On 22 Aug 2004 22:04:21 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

According to his fitness reports, Kerry volunteered for Swift boat duty: http://www.swiftvets.com/staticpages/index.php?page=Fitreps (this links to a web page on Kerry's own site that publishes the fitness reports Kerry is willing to release).
... snip
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an observer, Nixon in logistics, and Ford on combat ships. Clinton is the only President in the last sixty years with no military service of any sort.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
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On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 20:01:39 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

I'm sorry, which branch did FDR serve in? Assistant Secretary of the Navy hardly qualifies as "military service;" it's a civilian appointment. Moreover, the fact that the greatest president in the 20th Century didn't have any military service (just the AsstSecNav position), yet successfully led us to victory in the mother of all wars proves the point that it isn't a qualifying distinction.
In fact, to put this in a little better perspective, no president in the 20th Century from Roosevelt to Roosevelt served in the military. I wish the chest thumping neo-cons (who have little to brag about in the phantom national guard record of their standard bearer) would quit trying to make such a big deal out of military service.
- - LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
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seems to me only mr Kerry was the one touting military service ...Bush wasn't ,the only ones questioning that werer Kerry supporters. But in retrospect it better dropped the congress is filled with lawyers [including Edwards] who never served.
Zig zag Zell as the democrats call him certainly did.....mjh
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Mike Hide responds:

Uh, you can't tout what you don't have. Most people who have served as regulars do not consider the '60s and '70s Guard tours as military service.
Different story now, but that was then.
Charlie Self "Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
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Charlie Self wrote:

And following 4 May 70 it was some time before a lot of us who'd served as regulars were able to think of the NG as /any/ kind of legitimate military.
> Different story now, but that was then.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
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On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 14:58:32 -0600, Dave Balderstone

...Seems to me.... EVERYONE LIES except, Bush?
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says...

I get a kick out of all these folks trashing Kerry. Of course he's just another politician saying whatever he thinks will convince the voters to elect him. Bush is the same.
But Bush et al are tearing up the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and using it for toilet paper. Not to mention getting soldiers killed to try a highly dubious experiment at bringing "democracy" to the Middle East.
So Kerry gets my vote.
BTW, IMNSHO, the last national politicians we had who at least occasionally said what they meant were Truman and Goldwater. I voted for Goldwater and would have voted for Truman but I was too young :-).
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

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Where exactly do you get that from my post?
Seems to me that the American left is just a bit tetchy these days.
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Dave Balderstone responds:

I'm not sure ol' WD is on the left. I think he's standing off to one side, poking the ant hill with a stick to see what scurries out.
Charlie Self "Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
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snipped-for-privacy@pobox.com wrote:

Excuuuuuuuse me, the last fifty-nine and a half years. Picky, picky, picky.

Ummm... you might be a little confused here. Ronald Reagan was never Assistant Secretary of anything, but he *did* serve in the Army several decades prior to leading us to victory over the Sovs in the Cold War.

Who's trying to make a big deal out of anything? Somebody said that since Kennedy, only Carter, Reagan, and Bush I had served in the active-duty military, and all I did was to point out that Johnson, Nixon, and Ford also served. And Clinton didn't.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
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On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:49:38 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

You're the one confused. Your traitor reagan doesn't even make the top ten in the 20th Century. "Serve?" Making movies? Gee, that's how I want to serve in the next war; staying at the job I was doing before, continuing to make tons of money, and getting a spiffy uniform to boot.
At least when Clark Gable put on a uniform he hoisted it into a B-17 and flew some missions.

Ha, ha, ha, ha.
"Mr. Gorbachev, take down this wall."
"Uh, yeah, okay, ronnie, nyuk, nyuk, nyuk. You sure showed us."
An unworkable economic system (the soviet system, since you're so easily confused) inexorably collapsing under its own weight had nothing to do with it, I suppose.
And of course you're going to trot out the lamest neo-con claim of all; ronnie made it collapse by practically bankrupting our own economy in order to actually bankrupt theirs.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
- - LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote in message (Doug Miller)

Ronald Reagan was not FDR.
--

FF

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Fred the Red Shirt wrote:

Right - RR fought, and ultimately was the precipitating cause of the demise of, Communism, while FDR openly harbored Communists within his government ...
(Citatation: "The Mitrokhin Archive" - (Amazon.com product link shortened))
Also, RR was a Free Market Capitalist while FDR was essentially a Socialist.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
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The people most respnsible for the fall of communism in Europe are the communists themselves, though Lech Walesa sped the process along. Calling on Gorbachev to tear down the Berlin wall is not what made it happen.
I dunno if FDR harbored communists in his administration or not. I do know that in WWII the communists were our allies and there is no law against being a communist, nor against having communists in one's administration, nor should one believe that communists are inherently less loyal to their nations than people of any other political persuation. ISTR that it was Republicans under RR who sold weapons (e.g. gave aid and comfort) to an enemy nation against whom we were fighting a war in the Persian Gulf. Mind you, I think were on the wrong side in that war, but it is still treason to sell arms to the enemy.
I also know that under FDR's leadership the United States and our allies did nothing less important than save Western Europe and most of the Pacific from despotism.
--

FF

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