Re: OT-National Security

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When I first moved to Rochester, my landlord was a bow hunter, and a very good one. He was in his tree stand one day, on totally flat land, about 25' up. It had been a lousy day, so he was eating lunch up there, making all sorts of noise with the wax paper sandwich wrapper. Another hunter shot him in the leg with an arrow. Must've been hunting for them thar tree deer....yep.
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Mark & Juanita wrote:

I suppose it is the zero tolerance mindset that offends me the most. How many flights have been taken over by toenail clipper weilding hijackers? What's wrong with the idiot who refused GI Joe passage? And why is my Swiss Army knife beyond the pale?
If I had to face a hijacker, I'd rather have more to work with than just my dick. I have a concealed carry permit and the last thing I want to do is participate in a shootout. But I see no reason why the hijackers should hold all the cards. At least they've been served notice that the American people aren't going to cooperate like a load of sheep anymore.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

snipped-for-privacy@carolina.rr.com.BARF
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http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22break+walls+with%22&meta=group%3Dnews.admin.net-abuse.sightings
Who would have thought that spammers would actually contribute something to National Security?
--

FF

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hold
people
You know, practically every message you post has you claiming that you have a concealed weapons permit. You appear to be bragging about it at every opportunity. You flaunt it. I'd surmise that you're just itching to use your handgun in a dangerous situation. You leave very little else to wonder about.
You are the last person I'd want on an aircraft with me. Not because I'm a pacifist (I'm not) and not because I'm anti-firearms (I own a pistol not for protection, but for target practice) but because you appear to be waiting to spring into action at the first sign of danger. That's not your mandate and it's not your purview. It's ok to defend oneself and even to be aware of possible danger, but not to go looking for danger as you appear to want/be doing.
THAT'S how you appear to me and I suspect others see you the same way. Hell, it might account largely for you becoming an RN. Do you find all of this exciting? I wonder what that says about you? Nothing flattering that I can see.
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Upscale wrote:

You might be surprised to know I don't carry a gun. I keep one in the car, which is why I got the permit after 9/11. It gets taken out for target practice, cleaned and then replaced. That's the only time it gets handled.
I have guns at home too. If you visited, you'd have no idea. They're not out to be seen, and I don't play with them. Periodically, they go with me to the range, and then I put them away after cleaning them again.
That's it. I stay away from trouble spots. I'm a homebody. I leave my neighbors alone. I want to be left alone, and I am. I doubt my friends find me very scary.
So bite me.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

snipped-for-privacy@carolina.rr.com.BARF
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9/11
blocks,
I question why? Have you been targetted in some way, maybe because of living location or occupational location?

Yes, but just a little bit.

imagination.
Wouldn't you agree, that it's imagination that is causing you to keep a gun fairly close at hand? As far as my imagination goes, I've used a wheelchair for the past 20 years and although I own a pistol, it stays at home in a locked case and has a good change of being confiscated because of current Canadian gun laws. Very rarely have I even imagined taking it out somewhere with me. Considering my potential vulnerability, I should be the one with a gun at hand don't you think? But, I'm not. Maybe that's foolishness or recklessness of a sort, but there I think we differ in perspective.

Depends. If you felt threatened enough by me to shoot me, I don't think I'd want you working on my injuries. :)
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wrote:

Why, because he's mentioned the permit to conceal a gun a number of times. So much so that it's almost a statement of pride. I never said that he's out to kill someone. What I said is that it looks like he's ready to take action at a moment's notice. It's not his profession and just because someone has taken some training in the handling of a gun doesn't that person capable of *properly* handling a physical threat. That's for professional law enforcement and the military. A person who wants to stay alone and keep to himself does so and doesn't have to declare how he is able to protect himself. I don't know where Mortimer lives or what kind of threat conditions he's experienced, but considering my awareness of potential vulnerability, I don't feel the same way. I could and would act if I felt threatened and I've taken steps to be able to protect myself, but I don't like to flaunt it or brag about it. In a worst case scenario, broadcasting that knowledge to someone would forearm them in how they dealt with me and increase the risk to me. If Mortimer thought about it, he would do the same.
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snipped-for-privacy@lycos.com wrote:

Exactly so. I've disclosed things here that my neighbors don't know. They don't know I have a permit; they don't even know I own guns. I feel safe discussing this here because I recognize the chances of me actually meeting somebody from Usenet are slim to none. Generally the only reason I ever even mention the permit on Usenet to to suggest that not all permit holders are militia members from Montana.
I'm a registered nurse who lives in North Carolina and works in a hospital in South Carolina. There have been carjackings within a mile of my house, even though I live in what is considered a good middle class neighborhood. There have been home invasions within a mile of my house. It's a cold world out there. That's why I prefer to keep a low profile. My neighbors only know me to wave (and I wave back). I've lived on the same street for 17 years.
I know many of my coworkers keep guns in their cars. I just decided to make mine legal after carrying one in the car for the last 30 years. I'm not interested in shooting somebody; but I'm even less interested in being somebody's victim. There are wolves and there are sheep; I prefer to live as a porcupine.
Frankly, I don't know what difference any of this makes to Canadians. In the immortal words of the late Earl Butz: "You no playa da game; you no maka da rules." What the Canadians think of U.S. gun laws has no more meaning than a fart in a gale. Hey, I'd be the last to tell them they should carry guns. They should do whatever they want to do. As I should... and do (within the laws here).
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

snipped-for-privacy@carolina.rr.com.BARF
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I figured so.

I live in the country and sadly down state michigan has moved up to get away from it and brought it with them. It isn't real bad up here yet but it isn't getting better.

Very sensible. I have a spare tire for my truck. In 1991 it was removed for rustproofing. I lost the hardware to put it back so said tire was in garage for all but two trips. One, a unrefundable trip to Las Vegas leaving from Detroit where I had to be on time so I tossed it into the bed. Didn't need it.
The second time was a trip to Kentucky where I brought it with me in the bed. That time I lost my front rim and tire as it flew off going up I-74. Never found the front rim and tire. Didn't plan to loose it but that darn spare tire I brought sure made recovering easier.
CCW is a lot like that tire. I did not expect to need it but a few times there were reasons that I brought it. Most of the time it was in the way but when it was there when I needed it, I was happy.
Nothing mystical, just a tool, an option and something with risk/rewards to it. Some think of it as life insurance.

I didn't realize that upscale was a Canadian at until my last post. There is no point in trying to change his mind. He can't vote here in the US so he has no impact on how things are done down here.
They (Canadians) have their ways, we have ours. If I visit Canada, I am a guest and follow their rules, it is their country after all. Of course if I stop at Perry's Gun Shop in Ste. St Marie, I find some people that think a bit more like I do.
Wes
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Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
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So you're suggesting that I'm not psychologically capable because I don't approve of a CHL by the general public for personal protection? Strange reasoning you have there Phil. And believe me, I don't have a pacifist nature. I have a realistic one. This era of self indulgence and lack of control is rampant throughout our North American society. I *don't trust* the general public to behave responsibly, especially when a gun is put into their hands.
I live in Canada Phil. Very few people aside from law enforcement get a concealed weapons permit. I've gone as far as I can with a handgun and that's a permit to transport one to a gun range where I target shoot. That's the only interest I've ever hand for guns. Self protection has never been part of my interest.
Did you read recently where a couple of teenagers were driving around the streets of Toronto, Canada shooting off their pellet guns? A five year old boy was shot through the eye and the pellet is lodged in his head. I'm sure under other conditions, these three teenagers have behaved responsibly, but give them something exciting and slightly dangerous and they turned into marauders without a second thought. Within three days, two other pellet gun incidents took place. What doesn't that say to you Phil?
For the people who have seen the need to get a CHL, I feel for you. Obviously, you live in a location or conditions where you feel threatened on a regular basis. That's not a great way to live. It's possible I might feel the same way if I'd have experienced similar conditions, but I haven't. I suggest then, that you move to a location where you can be more at peace. Hell, move up here to Canada. I'll take you out to dinner, buy you beer and you can walk home afterwards without worrying about someone coming over to do you harm. :)
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wrote:

Of course we have the money. It's being sent back to each of us as tax rebates/refunds. But, these payments actually appear to be bribes for votes. :-)
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As opposed to ever-expanding entitlement programs designed to keep a segment of the voting public perpetually captive? I don't think Renata was suggesting the taxpayers as a whole subsidize even more security for affluent air travellers; rather, that substituting air marshals for paying customers would drive the cost of tickets way up.
Not every problem can or should be solved by erecting another expensive, inefficient, and immortal government program.
Cheers, Abe
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Well only some of us. Some of us don't have kids and don't get paid for adding to the population. Then the very same people that are giddy about getting a payoff want me to pay to build a new school for their kids since the old one that isn't paid off is too small due to population growth.
Wes
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Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
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in

I don't have professional experience poking holes in airplanes, but I seem to recall a flight a few years back that suffered an in-flight catastrophe where the skin peeled back from one of the forward doors - it looked like a convertible on the news programs. IIRC, they managed to bring the plane down safely (all things considered). There were some folks sucked out that weren't buckled in, and I can't recall other injuries/deaths, but it seems like most of the passengers made it. Granted, it may have taken a few hours to pry the survivors hands off the armrests... ;-)
-=jd=-
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On Sat, 02 Aug 2003 04:37:48 +0000, -=jd=- wrote:

Here's the story with pictures:
http://www.aloha.net/~icarus /
60 injured and 1 stewardess lost.
-Doug
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Renata wrote:

Every flight already has two people who are skilled at handling emergencies, background checked, and presumably committed to defending all the lives on the plane already. We call them Pilots! Install in every cockpit a small closed box, in that box, located where both pilot and co-pilot can easily reach it, is a handgun with ammo appropriate for use in the confines of the plane. The door to the box is wired so that the instant it opens, the FAA is notified of the hijacking. The pistol might even be tethered to the box so that it cannot be removed from the cockpit? Before the flight the pilot and co-pilot decide who shoots and who flies, and while the goober tries to bust down the door, the shooter opens the box, and when the door fails, he shoots the guy. Cockpit doorways are about 2'x6' so almost any shot will likely hit the hijacker, at that range accuracy and practice are not MAJOR concerns. Familiarity with the weapon is really all that is needed, probably a double action auto without a safety to worry about forgetting. I hope ammo is chosen carefully because somebody like me will likely be hanging on the dude's back trying to choke him to death. Overpenetration will be a concern for me! Instead of permitting pilots to carry we should require them to learn the basics and lock the guns in the cockpits. And give granny back her scissors and let me carry a pen-knife again.
Stuart
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Already exists. Pilot/crew changes transponder code (can't remember what the number for "not under crew command" is offhand-there are several variations, mostly intended for when the voice transmitter craps out.
Dale
snipped-for-privacy@lycos.com wrote:

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You assume the pilot/crew is still in command of the equipment. Those that took over the 9/11 flights knew this stuff, at least the general transponder codes for emergincies. They also knew what the control for the transponder looked like incase they let the flight crew live a bit. Not likely though.
Wes
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clutch writes:

Look around you. That's not brainwashing. That's fact.
Charlie Self
"Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child." Dan Quayle
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<snip>

The same here, Tom. Texas has a concealed handgun permit and it means just that. The problem is that I've seen no one and almost *no place* for anyone to practice drawing from their holster. With a handgun concealed, practice must be used to safely draw from either a belt, shoulder, or pancake holster behind their back without shooting themselves. Most ranges down here do not allow this practice.
Jim Mc Namara
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