Re: OT - Is it really worth saving any more?

Page 9 of 13  
"Charlie Groh" wrote:

Nah, that position is left to the TV entertainment programming geniuses.
Newton Minnow had it right more than 40 years ago.
Lew
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On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 02:04:50 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"

...and Marshal McLuhan: "The Medium is the Message"...but it's not some grand cabal, doncha know. ( Interestingly, given the "sides taken" in this thread, McLuhan is/was Canadian...).

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Maybe, but so what?

You're right about that. I don't have a very good opinion of humanity in general. Despite thousands of years of culture and development, at the drop of a hat, man will turn into greedy, self indulgent animals without a shred of consideration for their fellows. *That's* what I consider average. So no, don't expect me to support arming people based on personal choice.
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wrote:

...so it colors whatever you say with bias. I figured loooong ago that there were a helluva lotta really smart people on this planet of ours...what produced that epiphany isn't germane here, the fact that I *got* that concept most assuredly is.

...but that isn't the point. The point is *defense* against those who have an illegal means of arming themselves against *you* and *I*...and it doesn't really matter where on this continent, eh?! (...couldn't resist, LOL). Whatever you think of your fellow man, rest assured plenty of *bad* folks out there relish the though of an unarmed and vulnerable *you!* And, no, they might not be as smart as you, either.
cg

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Then you could say that about everybody. Anybody with a personality has their own sense of self-worth which they project to others and could be considered arrogance.

I don't know how old you are Charlie, but maybe you can relate. I'm 54. When I went to school, just like any other school of any time and place, there were bullies, people to be afraid of. You dealt with that as you were able. But, nowhere in my experience in all the schools I attended were there students that felt the need to be armed. I'm talking about knives. These days, kids are carrying knives (and sometimes guns) into school, when they go shopping, wherever. ~ All with the thought that they need to be armed for protection. Guns are a simple extension of that thinking. Going about your life day to day while living in an atmosphere of fear is a terrible way to live.
Thinking smart and being careful is advisable anywhere. The need to carry armament tells me there's something intrinsically wrong with society. That's how I feel. Obviously, many disagree with me. It's their right to think that way, but for Christ's sake, give me the same right.
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wrote:

OK...I have 6 decades down and hopefully a couple or three to go...grew up in wonderful Orange County, CA...Dismaland, you know, the Tragic Kingdom. Pretty idyllic growing up...not so now, but livable, yanno? I do my craft, do alot of photography, teach high schoolers how to march (marching band) and on the side contract for a living. Got a little education...went to war in lovely SE Asia and got to fly helo-co-peters (shot more rounds in a minute than most people would shoot in a lifetime...this is also where I had that epiphany I mentioned earlier, yup.) and didn't own a handgun until 3 years ago...'cause it helps me feel like I can protect myself and my property.

There *is* something wrong with society, man, and *my* opinion is that whatever it is, it ain't gonna run me down. There are a LOT of folks like me, by FAR the huge majority who will never have to pull a trigger at anything other than a man target or a tin can. Sure there are those exceptions who "go postal and all," but I submit to you the unrealized/underreported statistics of "protection" or "deterence" by far outweigh those anomolies.
cg
BTW...you have points, surely...however,it's a grave usenet protocol error to snip-out pieces of preceding posts (it's OK if so noted by <snip> even though frowned upon). That practice could and doesproduce missunderstandings for those reading a thread for the first time...not to mention those who've written those (may be) relevant (to them) words. Dig? You're a smart fellow...

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Ok, then I have no choice except to acquiesce to your opinion/experience. And, I'll admit that even though I like to think I'm cognizant of what's going on through my friends and connections, I could well be truly unaware of what's really happening. You just can't ever know for sure can you?

Yup, that's one of the serious downfalls of this means of communication. Talking in text will never approach all the inflections and idiosyncrasies we experience when talking to someone in person.
Pax
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wrote:

...heh, OK then. Take your last sentence, though...it sounds like you're responding/commenting (agreeing?) to what I've written about usenet protocol, and our faulty system of communication here, yet you truncate my words? Hopefully it's an old dog/new trick thing!
I have respect for your opinion...after all, different circumstances produce different people.
cg (and pax to you, too)
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"Charlie Groh" wrote:

These days, you would be lucky to have access to the shooting range on Katella ave.
<snip> >.... I

Ah yes, the clash between perception and reality.
Since I have a few years on you, BTDT (keep the T-Shirt), I'll offer the following:
The brain still thinks you are an 18 year old stud.
Totally invincible.
OTOH, the body tells a different story.
The reflexes are not totally shot, but you have lost a couple of steps.
Faced with a confrontational situation with some dumb 20 year old hoodlum, you would be lucky if he didn't take your pea shooter away from you and put it where the moon doesn't shine before you knew what happened.
Father time is not kind.
As my mother often said, "...time brings changes we must learn to accept."
Lew
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On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:52:48 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"

...nope, walk right in, brother...

...need a little more here...is not my perception reality? I know we have different takes and all...

...I would counter with the thought that it's not "reality" to try to compare experience...

...just got through dealing with 300 others of my age group trying to relive a very physical and wonderful part of our lives...believe me when I say I know of what you speak...

...true, but I stay strong (carpenter by trade and still do things that require strength) and agile...last marathon was 2 years ago and still under 5 hours (actually under 4, but I missed a turn! LOL)...

I don't think I would be lucky, my friend...I think I would be prepared. That said, I'm not out looking for confrontation, but if it comes to my doorstep it'd better be ready to learn how to fly... the hard way.
Attitude has a lot to do with self-preservation, would you agree to that?

...time is what you make of it, neh?
cg

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"Charlie Groh" wrote:

Not really.
... I would counter with the thought that it's not "reality" to try to

Experience, other than as a point of reference, has nothing to do with it.

Which should prove the point you have lost a couple of steps over the years.

Congratulations, but strength is not the issue, it is reaction time.

What makes you think you would recognize a problem before it was too late?
Chances are it won't be a direct assault.
Look at the poor 75 year old woman in Orange County this week.
Tied up in the trunk of her car for 2 days.
Strictly a sneak attack.

Attitude is 90% of most endeavors.

Absolutely.
Lew
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On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:56:28 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"

...done with the tit-for-tat, Lew. You have your POV and I have mine and that's the beauty of it all. I'm comfortable where I'm at, sounds like you are too...
cg

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In other words, you think most people shouldn't be allowed to have them.
That makes you anti-gun.

Hardly.
You're clearly ignorant of our firearms laws.

Whatever. You're obviously strongly anti-gun, and your claim to own them is simply not plausible.
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Doug Miller wrote: <SNIP>

Not necessarily. Almost without exception, lefty ideologues think they are above the huddled masses (the rest of us) and feel no particular compunction in granting themselves permission to do and own things they feel others should be forbidden from doing/having. It is entirely possible our dear Upscale wants for himself that which he wishes to deny others. The examples of such behaviors on the left are numerous (and nauseating). Among them, we find Our Savior Of The Earth, Al Gore, flying around in private jets. Our Savior Of The Downtrodden, Michael Moore, living the life of a wealthy millionaire. And, of course, Our Savior Of Everything, Comrade St. Obama, denying the average citizen (or trying to) the same protections afforded by firearms that he personally possesses (and we all pay for). They're not really liars - they're arrogant hypocrites...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP /
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You'd be right.

Maybe for your country. I'm Canadian. For our country, it's perfectly normal for the vast majority of Canadians never to have even held a gun before. That's something you'll never be able to understand ~ just the same as I might never be able to completely understand the American need to be armed.

Your opinion. I guess that makes you fallible just like everybody else.
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How sad.

No, you probably never will.

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Here's another name for you. You're a coward. I've given you the opportunity to prove me a liar as you called me (would that be what you call descending to personal insults Doug?) and I guess you're backing down on it because you're apparently not man enough to take me up on my challenge.
You can't take the chance I was telling the truth because apparently you're too immature to deal with the possibility of admitting you were wrong. Hey, no surprise there at all. You need your gun to prop up what little manhood you might have.
(If anybody finds me dead, you might consider that Doug grew some balls and showed up at my front door).
Are we having fun yet? :)
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Oh, I'll be happy to take you up on that challenge -- just not with Robatoy as referee.
How about Tim Daneliuk instead?
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Sure, you fly him up to Toronto. While ideologically, Tim is an <expletive>, you're nothing more than a cut rate flim-flam artist. You suggesting Tim while thinking that I'd turn him down shows that you have no intention whatsoever to take me up on my challenge. A simple picture with me and Tim is all it would take to validate the truth. Hell, I might even get along with the guy if I met him in person.
Your problem is you think you're being clever while failing miserably at it. You need to grow up and be a man. As it is, all you've done is demonstrate that mentally, you've yet to experience puberty.
Obviously, you don't have anything tangible to offer, so this thread is finished as far as I'm concerned until if or when you come back with something worthwhile.
Go ahead, you can have the final response.
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I am advised that, as the plaintiff, I am no longer to participate in any discussion involving Doug Miller's libelous utterances against my person.
Not that I will miss him much.
r
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