RE: O/T: Time Will Tell

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On 12/24/2013 9:29 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

FWIW, I, being an ex Olds service manager, still see the things that went wrong in the 80's still being built the same way in the current vehicles. This is especially true on interiors. Same cheap crap.
When we bought our last Toyota in August of last year I had a heck of an incentive to buy a Buick. The new car sales manager at the dealership is a customer of mine and he offered me a deal that was hard to turn down. AND on top of that I had an additional $2300 credit on my old GM credit card to take off of the total agreed to price.
The Buick was going to be approximately $5000 less than the Camry that we bought. And we got to take the Buick home for 24 hours as a test drive. Actually that test drive is probably why we did not buy the car.
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On 12/24/2013 10:43 AM, Leon wrote:

My sister has a Buick, I too have a Camry, when taking a ride in their car, I could not believe how bad a pot hole felt. My Camry on that same pothole barely notices. The setup on the suspension for the American cars is still lacking. My Camry SE handles way better than that Buick... night and day different.
--
Jeff

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Well Buick is probably better now than ever. IMHO most all of GM Vehicles, except maybe their trucks, were POS since the mid 70's. Back in the 7Os 80s ... They were all the same vehicles with different trim levels and badges.
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Yes "found on road dead" now seems to belong to GM, not Ford. I have bought Rangers the last three vehicles, the main reason the seat was the most comfortable to my ass. Priorities YMMV.
Mark
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wrote:

Since Rangers are no longer made (2011 was the last year, IIRC), I bought an F150 this time. I like it a lot! The price they were asking for Rangers was outrageous. $22K for a 2010 with 20K miles or $18K for an '11 with 50K. I paid $25K for a new '13 F150 XLT.
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On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 12:48:58 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

The Ranger is still made, just not sold or made in the US, they did that to get rid of the glut of F150's.
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wrote:

I thought they did it because there was little difference in cost (and price) so there was no longer a market. If it was because of a "glut", it would have been temporary.
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On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 19:44:17 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

From the article I read back in 2011, it was because the F150s were not selling as they had hoped. All the investment in the new design was being eaten away because they were competing with themselves with the Ranger in the US. The profit margin on the F150s was also higher, so may favorite truck is not available no more here. But if you have enough money you could ship one from down under, the cost however would buy you two F150s I think.
Mark
Mark
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wrote:

Well, from 2008 until about then, nothing was selling as well as they had hoped. The automotive market was in the dumper all around.

The F150s are certainly higher profit. The Rangers are simply more expensive to manufacture than their size would suggest. There were a lot of corners cut in the 2010s and 2011s that weren't in the 2001s, too.
I'm not disappointed moving up from the Ranger to the F150. It handles better and I can lay a sheet of plywood flat. ;-)

It would probably cost that much more to make it US roadworthy.
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snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

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wrote:

It was less than $26K total but sure, the sales tax was on both new and used. I doubt I'll ever have to replace the new one, though.
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snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

yours! I've cut back on my driving on purpose. No regrets on cutting cable either. With what I save on furniture by making it myself, I'm going to be broke enough! ; )
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wrote:

More than I want, too, but I don't like the idea of walking 18mi to work every day, either. ;-) They're expensive but I also have a lot more money to spend on cars than I did 20 years ago.

If I cut "cable" (satellite is our only choice) I'd be sleeping in the garage. ;-) We have never driven a lot but drive more now than ever. In the six months we've had these vehicles, my truck has 5600 miles (6500 by this time next week) and my wife's Mustang has about 8K on it.
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On 12/24/2013 10:29 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

track. not an oval.
I also bought a used BMW 2002.. I never went back to American after that. When I opened the engine, there was a major difference in machine work. Americans were like clunkers and the BMW was all machined.. Same with the Honda.
I went to Honda's next for quite a while until I had a problem with undersize brakes and they kept telling me that no one had that problem.. During a Honda club meeting everyone was complaining about it. That was my last Honda, as there way of dealing with the problem was to say it wasn't happening. My wheel would shake violently from undersize rotors heating up.
I have been in Toyota's camp for a while now.. they are not perfect either.. But it's been a solid vehichle .... the last 4 have been very good.
I used to compete against many of the engineers for GM and Chrysler at the nationals.. They explained how Toyotas and Hondas fell apart in the first couple of months.. I asked them if they had ever been in one.. They would never step foot in one. I told them they would never understand, and as engineers they should rent one to understand, give it a month... Very closed minds, and that's why our car makers lost the Car battle..
In order to know the competition sometimes you need to embrace them... in their case they just assumed they were better.
--
Jeff

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The reason the American manufacturers lost out to the Japanese was the labor unions
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On 12/24/2013 3:56 AM, Leon wrote:

Not bad, since you only drive it to WoodCraft for Festools. (g,d&r>
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Huh?
1) The parts an OEM uses to manufacture their cars are, by definition, NOT "after market".
2) Toyota does not manufacture all of their parts, themselves. They buy from the same "Tier-1" companies as everyone else.

That's not surprising. I'm sure there is even a Chrysler, out there somewhere, that's a couple of years old that hasn't had warranty work done on it.
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On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 12:27:34 -0500, krw wrote:

We bought a 2006 PT Cruiser in 2007 that had 18,000 miles on it. We've still got it. The dealer replaced the leaky rear seal (a known problem) before he'd let us buy it. Other than normal maintenance, only thing replaced has been the front brakes at around 50,000. Mileage is now around 60,000 mostly city miles with a lot of stop and go driving. We're pretty happy with the car.
I see a lot of them on the road and very few in the for sale ads. The owners must like them. So of course Chrysler stopped making them :-).
BTW, with the seats folded down I can carry 8' lumber - one of the reasons I selected it.
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On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 18:04:47 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard

I could get 10' lumber in my Voyagers but they still sucked. Neither made it to 10 years or 100K miles. Neither did my Vision TSi or the Chrysler Intrepid.
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On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 13:43:03 -0500, "Mike Marlow"

OTOH, my wife's '14 Mustang was back in the shop 6 times (twice when we were on vacation), the first month we had it. They should have been able to fix it on the first try but they were obviously incompetent. They don't keep any parts on hand, so any service turns into at least two trips to the dealer.
The convertible is a lot of fun to drive, though. ;-)
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