RE: O/T: Reflections

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On 1/5/2015 10:53 PM, woodchucker wrote:

Exactly. Choose an alternative fuel and the government is going to tax it too.
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

---------------------------------------------------------------- John McCoy wrote:

----------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) I didn't arrive in CA until 1990. Might want to verify your source.
2) It's not that expensive to clean up after yourself.
CA been doing it for years.
Lew
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On 1/4/2015 11:57 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

Really, IIRC California is one of the most expensive places to do anything. What do you suppose makes California a more expensive place to live.
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The source is .ca.gov, which is a California state government website. It would be hard to find a more authoritative source.

That was my point - Cal has had higher taxes and special pollution regulations for years (heck, there was a time when automakers had to make special California models). So, when prices elsewhere in the US were just under a dollar, I'd have expected Cal to be more different than they were.
John
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On 01/05/2015 10:11 AM, John McCoy wrote:
...

I'd suspect if you go look as suggested that they really were if account for which level of controls were in place at the time in comparison to the rest of the US.
And, much of what CA brags about isn't them "cleaning up after themselves" as much as it is pushing it out of state and then importing the product...power being one prime example.
--



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This requires a cite. California imports 10% from the northwest (the bulk of that is hydro), and 20% from the southwest (of which 30% comes from coal). The remaining 70% is generated in-state. Note that the drought has increased the draw from out-of-state due to a 36% drop in in-state hydro in 2012 and a further 10% drop in 2013. The shutdown of San Onofre has also increased imports.
http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/electricity/total_system_power.html
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On 1/5/2015 11:48 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

And I remember when a certain northern city who had a nuke power plant built, energized and signed off ready to dump power on the grid and the local city voted to shut the power plant down. I don't know how they can do that after several dozens of years of planning and spending billions on a massive plant and only when they spend more money on fuel and certification does some of the city complain. Likely the college students all moved out and don't care. But want the power just the same. About that time (shutdown) there was a power crisis and the state went to taxes and shutdown themselves.
Martin
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For which 100% of californians are _GRATEFUL_.
Anyone who experienced a second or third-stage smog alert in the LA basin in the 50's, 60's, 70's or early 80's knows exactly how beneficial those blends have been. There hasn't been a first stage alert since 1990, entirely due to the clean-air regulations. They're a _good thing_.
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On 01/05/2015 11:50 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Didn't say that the weren't, necessarily, only that there's something other than "gas is gas"...and I doubt it'd be possible to find _anything_ 100% of a population as large and diverse as CA's would be for... :)
--


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snipped-for-privacy@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in

Yeah, I recall being out in San Berdoo in the early 90's (working on the restoration of steam engine 3751), and every morning we had a great view of the mountains, and by 3 every afternoon they'd disappeared in the haze. But the locals all said it was much better than it used to be.
John
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On 01/05/2015 3:49 PM, John McCoy wrote: ...

Spent a lot of time with Garrett-AirResearch s primary consulting client in Torrance in early '80s...was often pretty bad then but again that was nothing to what had been earlier.
Denver in the 60s owing to the elevation was no picnic, either...
--



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On 1/5/2015 3:49 PM, John McCoy wrote:

I flew out there in 1980. June. The plane was flying through clouds until we almost touched down. The street lights were all on and a reddish sight looking across the runways. Not much visible.
After the eyes got used to the darkness, it was almost like day.
Martin
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Somebody wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------------- Not sure how many blends are made today, but there was a time when more than 30 blends were offered across the country.
CA has some unique blends that meet air quality standards.
Lew
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On 01/05/2015 3:53 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

Well, that's not _exactly_ how the blends are set but the CARB does mandate what can be sold in CA, yes.
--



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"Mike Marlow" wrote:

---------------------------------------- Poor baby.
Lew
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Typical ad hominem attack. You can't attack the message, you must attack the messenger. Poor debating technique, and poor manners. Name calling is for grade school.
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Well, in fairness, someone has to pay for the roads. I don't see that electric vehicles should get a free ride.
The trick, of course, is to proportion the burden fairly (*), and to make sure the politicos actually spend the tax money for the purpose it was intended (i.e. roads).
(* currently it's not that way, with motorcycles paying a disproportionally high amount, and heavy trucks paying disproportionally low. In the case of trucks it's usually said to be justified since trucks are essential to the economy. I'm not sure what the justification is for motorcycles, other than there's not enough of them for anyone to care).
John
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On 1/6/2015 10:46 AM, John McCoy wrote:

In CT we have the highest gas tax and worst roads. ""T"hey raised the tax so much, many of us don't pay it. I work in MA and cross the border 4 days a week and save 30¢ a gallon while I'm there.
Now they are talking about putting tolls back. They want to put them on the roads as you exit the state only. That means the politicians going to the Capitol won't pay any tolls, but tourist, passing truckers, and those of us working out of state will. I imagine the back roads will be very congested as I'm not going to pay a toll on my way to buy the out of state gas and booze.
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Denver can still be pretty bad...it's because it sits down in a bit of a hole, and the bad air can get trapped, the flow coming off the mountains just sort of goes right over it.
John
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as will be. but note "stupid californians" and "brain-dead" go beyond simple disagreement, and indeed are patently false characterizations.
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