RE: O/T: GOP Eyes Changes to Food-Stamp Program

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On 02/18/2015 12:20 AM, Baxter wrote:

Instead of more obfuscation, why not admit you're wrong in claiming that the SS trust fund contains Public Debt?
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What part of "investments held by the trust funds are backed by the full faith and credit of the U. S. Government" do you not understand?
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On 02/18/2015 07:47 AM, Baxter wrote:

The part where you claimed it was "public debt" which was the basis for your irrelavant SCOTUS reference.
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On 2/17/2015 7:43 PM, Baxter wrote:

> I call bullshit on that claim. Put up or shut up.
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Oh, get real. Republicans have been opposed to SS since it first came to the US. All today's rhetoric is right out of Hoover's playbook http://tinyurl.com/kmmmsme
See also: http://tinyurl.com/pmr7bec http://tinyurl.com/ldnjdys
All the same adverse claims we hear today from the right, I heard 50 years ago.
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On 2/18/2015 7:46 AM, Baxter wrote:

I looked at all three sites. There's not a shred of evidence on any of them that "the right-wing has been trying to cancel SS for over 50 years." So your claim IS bullshit.
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------------ The 80-Year Conservative War On Social Security Is Back For More
Social Security, in more ways than one the mother of all U.S. entitlement programs, has been the dragon that conservatives have succeeded in slashing, but never slaying, over its 80-year history. Their opposition has morphed from outright ideological grounds as the program was being debated during the New Deal era to a campaign masked in careful rhetoric once Social Security became virtually untouchable as a political animal.
But the program has never been perceived by the left as an existential threat the way it has been by many on the right. To understand where conservatives are now, you have to understand how they got there. The following is derived in large part from "The Battle for Social Security," authored by Social Security Works's co-director Nancy Altman, and TPM's own consultations with other experts on the program.
http://tinyurl.com/jw3r7zs
See also: http://tinyurl.com/ntu5sva
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On 2/18/2015 12:32 PM, Baxter wrote:

I looked at both sites. There's still not a shred of evidence on any of them that "the right-wing has been trying to cancel SS for over 50 years." That's strikes one, two, three, and four. You're OUT!
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Well, *you* are proof one thing - there's no cure for stupid.
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On 2/17/2015 8:43 PM, Baxter wrote:

The conservative thought was to replace it with something that would grow. Not just cancel it. Taking a dollar and keeping it a dollar for your life time is not good for you. It doesn't earn interest or dividend and the value of the dollar declines. So SS as defined isn't really working very well.
Martin
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Like they have with the ACA? Sorry, all their proposals are and have been way short - to the point of non-existant.
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On 2/17/2015 12:35 AM, Baxter wrote:

Again your ignorance of the facts, and the actual law, is showing.
As I clearly stated earlier: by virtue of the Supreme Court decision in 'Flemming v. Nestor', SCOTUS clearly states, among other things with regard to SS, that ***there is no contractual agreement between taxpayer and government***.
You're wrong ... keep digging your hole.
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wrote in

Which refers to _individual_ rights - not Trust Fund rights
See: http://www.ssa.gov/history/nestor.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flemming_v._Nestor
Individuals do not have a *contractual* right to SS payments. The bonds purchased by the Trust Fund, however, ARE binding contracts. Just as *you* would have a binding contract for any Treasury Bills that you purchased.

You're missinterpreting - why?
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On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 14:54:07 +0000 (UTC), Baxter

Bullshit. The trust find can evaporate at the whim of Congress. The money in the "trust fund" is *not* owed to you. You have no legal claim on it. It's complete fiction.

No, he's got you nailed.
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snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote in wrote:

No different than any other Treasury Bond. AFATG, the entire National Debt could "evaporate at the whim of Congress".

You have a problem listening, don't you?
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On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 02:47:33 +0000 (UTC), Baxter

Wrong again, dim one. The Full Faith and Credit clause applies to debt. The trust fund is *NOT* debt. Your benefits are NOT subject to FF&C. It's not a debt. It's a tax and a benefit (and two unrelated things, at that) that can be changed with a simple majority of congress. FF&C takes a little more work to amend (though Obama doesn't care about little things like the Constitution).

Wrong again, dog breath. It is you who has a problem thinking. Like all lefties, you've taken the full lethal dose of the left's Kool Aid,
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snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote in wrote:

Prove that the _securities_ held by the SS Trust do not enjoy the same protection as any other security issued by the US Treasury.
In fact, they enjoy *greater* protection: --------- The Social Security trust funds are invested entirely in U.S. Treasury securities. Like the Treasury bills, notes, and bonds purchased by private investors around the world, the Treasury securities that the trust funds hold are backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government. The U.S. government has never defaulted on its obligations, and investors consider U.S. government securities to be one of the world?s safest investments.
The Treasury securities held by the trust funds have some special features that make them even more attractive investments than other Treasury securities. First, the trust funds? investments do not fluctuate in value and can always be redeemed at par. Even if the securities must be redeemed early, Social Security is guaranteed not to lose money on its investment.
... Is Trust Fund Debt Real If It?s Not Part of Debt Held by the Public?
Yes. Budget experts generally focus on debt held by the public ? which reflects what the government must borrow in private credit markets and which excludes trust fund holdings ? as the most useful measure of federal debt for economic analysis.[9] Some have argued that it is inconsistent to adopt that focus while simultaneously viewing the debt held by Social Security as real. This argument is incorrect: both measures of debt are important, but they measure different things.
http://tinyurl.com/l6utrdo
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On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 03:13:29 +0000 (UTC), Baxter

Prove? Idiot, they are non-negotiable interagency securities. IOW, they're an accounting fiction. You are not owed a piece of them. Get that through your thick skull.

You're lying. Well, I guess too stupid to know better isn't really a lie but you've been told the truth many times.

A lie. They are *NOT* like treasury bill. They are *NOT* negotiable. They're simply an accounting fiction, representing money your children owe. However, you are NOT owed anything.

Oh good grief, you're dense. The bonds held by the SS trust fund are not negotiable in any sense of the word.

A half-lie. Sure it's part of the national debt but it's not owed to you. The right hand of the government owes it to the left hand of the government. IOW, it's simply an accounting fiction.

Wise up!
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On 2/17/2015 7:21 AM, Swingman wrote:

Because the government operates "above the law" it does not need no stink'n contract.
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wrote:

A contract requires a "meeting of the minds". I have no choice. The government has no mind.
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