RE: O/T: And Now You Know

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Ralph's is a SoCal grocery chain that was purchased a few years ago by Kroger, a grocery chain based in Cincinnati, Ohio.
At first the changes in ownership were few and subtle starting with private label canned products such as tomatoes being introduced.
Recently have noticed the introduction of Kroger brand red meats such as sausage.
Today, I stopped at Ralph's to get a ham, packed by a local packing house, which was on sale.
Unfortunately, they were out of stock, but they did offer a rain check, which I accepted.
What was in stock, at a significantly higher price, was a SugarDale ham.
I did a double take since SugarDale is a meat packer located in Canton, Ohio, some 2,500 miles away from Los Angeles.
When I lived in NorthEast Ohio, SugarDale had a major portion of the market including my business so I was comfortable with the brand.
Buying a SugarDale product in Los Angeles meant there was some serious shipping involved.
Makes you think about all those 18 wheelers traversing those interstates.
Lew
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On 12/23/2014 8:35 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

All it takes is one rail car full and it goes into the local store house that serves the region. Let trucks do the short haul.
Martin
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On 12/23/2014 8:35 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote: ...

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Pales in comparison to shipping Australian beef in...or US beef/pork to Japan/China...
National Beef here ships 90% of "specialty cuts" to Japan from SW KS.
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On 12/23/2014 8:35 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

What do you suppose is in all of those other trucks Lew?
FWIW way over here in east Texas we get a load of products from California. I know this because everything from California has a cancer warning label.
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On 12/24/2014 8:58 AM, Leon wrote: ...

Not necessarily from CA at all; manufacturers put the CA-silliness labels on all their product because it's cheaper than having multiple labels and keeping track of what gets shipped where...
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On 12/24/2014 9:08 AM, dpb wrote:

Oh, so California has mad this a problem for the whole country.
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On 12/24/2014 11:13 AM, Leon wrote:

...

Ayup...and it's only getting worse with their new rules for "importing" eggs as just a starting point...
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When the San Andreas fault lets go at 9.something, California will no longer be a problem. If it stays above water, it will be an island. Probably useful as a prison island, as there will be no fresh water other than captured rainwater - but they probably don't allow that...
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On 12/24/2014 12:45 PM, snipped-for-privacy@wizardanswers.com wrote:

Never lived there have you.
The Pacific plate contains mountains in northern and southern Ca. And that plate is slipping North. SO when Mexico is west of Oregon, Where the induction crease is, and what amount of Ca is under the volcanoes that run along the pacific northwest we can talk about CA slipping. That is in time for the Sun to expand beyond our orbit anyway.
Martin - lived on the Pacific Plate, worked on the North American Plate for 17 years and three or so in So Ca working and living on the Pacific Plate.
There is a neat mountain (rocky) that was split in two. One part is 400 miles north of the other. Both are parks and have real time drums inking lines waiting for any movement. I was there when Loma went up and the country called it San Fran earth quake. Loma was 70 miles south and 4 miles from our old house (lived through it)...
Martin
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wrote in message wrote:

When the San Andreas fault lets go at 9.something, California will no longer be a problem. If it stays above water, it will be an island. Probably useful as a prison island, as there will be no fresh water other than captured rainwater - but they probably don't allow that...
It's not too late to get some beachfront property in Yuma.
Dave in SoTex
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The SP was a single track railroad. All the double track between LA and El Paso is recent, stuff UP has put in since the intermodal business between LA and Chicago took off.
Double track ends at El Paso because the UP splits three ways there - the Rock Island line thru Amarillo to Chicago, the Missouri Pacific line to Dallas, and the SP line to Houston and New Orleans.

Axle loads in Europe are far far less than in the US (one axle of a US freight car carries more weight than an entire car in Europe). It took a while to develop a technology to make concrete ties that would withstand those loads. That said, concrete ties have been the norm for mainline track in the US for the last 20 years or so. Wood is still preferred for secondary lines.
John
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On 12/27/2014 9:38 AM, John McCoy wrote: ...

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As noted earlier, we're on the old Rock Island line--in fact, town exists where it does as this was the terminus for a number of years before opening Indian Territory (Oklahoma) to let them continue building across it.
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Surprised there's so much railroad interest here.
Anyway, the line from Amarillo up toward Lamar is and always has been Santa Fe - it doesn't actually go to Lamar, it bends west to La Junta.
The Rio Grande doesn't go anywhere east of the foothills - it got as far south as Trinidad then found itself blocked by the Santa Fe. The Rio Grande (now UP) and the Santa Fe (now BNSF) parallel each other from Denver to Pueblo, they share each other's track so it's effectively double track.
The line from middle of nowhere up thru Limon to Denver was originally the Kansas Pacific, which was basically a stock promoters scam back in 1869. UP took it over in 1880.
John
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On 12/27/2014 2:25 PM, John McCoy wrote: ...

Nothin' else much goin' on over the weekend... :)

That's the one the UP CO map shows, the nationwide one at
<http://www.up.com/aboutup/reference/maps/system_map/index.htm
shows both. The eastern branch basically parallels US 287 which is the main truck route from Denver to Amarillo. I've driven that enough to have seen too many trains to know it isn't Santa Fe (BNSF, now, of course). Whether it was at one time or not I couldn't say but the Kansas Pacific doesn't sound right to me for the Amarillo-Denver eastern section, either...afaik they never ran anything except the northern branch thru Kit Carson and on to Denver and those environs north.
It'd likely would have been about that time and possible was another one of the short-lived ideas to try to bring TX cattle up to the Denver markets that wouldn't have been a bad idea other than lack of anything else between to make up any other traffic.
The branch I'm speaking of does, however, go on up past Lamar, not west to Pueblo...
Again, this is all just what I "know" from dad/grandfather from growing up in SW KS. Grandfather worked for Santa Fe in Argentine (KS, now surrounded by KCK) until decided after a wheat harvest helping his brother that he like farming better than railroading so they homestead here together a few years later.
There was the old K&O (KS and OK) shortline that later on tried to do a similar collection from the RI terminal in Liberal down to various spots in the OK panhandle east of the RI mainline that went on to Guymon and SW to Dalhart, TX. It lasted only a short time, too, for lack of enough density in grain/cattle production to make it pay. The old railbed location still shows as a hump in our dirt road on the way to town and is slicker 'n glass in wet weather owing to the hard clay/caliche they used in the roadbed grade...
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On 12/27/2014 4:17 PM, dpb wrote:

And like I said - the San Antonio to El Paso and Ft. Worth /DFW to El Paso.
And El Paso runs to LA via Tucson. From there, north and south (Naval bases) and ends in Washington (naval yard).
Martin - been in the San Francisco Naval Yard on UP tracks working on an old Steam engine. I did like the working tables in there. We had to re-build the boiler and was taking out the long long bolts that hold it all together. They had to be burnt off and the bolts pounded out. Welder on the outside...
We were inside with two other engines being looked at - the Naval/UP setup was deeded to the non-profit club that works on keeping the steam up and maintains the place in case a fast move in is needed. Navy was moved out by the Demo's. I have a patch for the work and money donated.
Martin
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On 12/27/2014 9:20 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:

...

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All of which is true but doesn't much correlate w/ the sidebar discussion of the routes thru W TX and to/from the coal regions of the Powder Basin and environs...
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On 12/28/2014 8:48 AM, dpb wrote:

But all you talked about in West Texas was the way up north pan handle stuff. The Ice and snow route.
Martin
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OK, now I'm confused. Usually when I go that way I go up thru Dalhart and across the corner of NM to I-25, but I have taken the US287 route a couple of times. I'm pretty sure there isn't a railroad paralleling US287 at Lamar...BNSF (with UP trackage rights) parallels it from Amarillo to just over the CO border where it bends off to La Junta (and eventually Pueblo), which I'm pretty sure is the line the UP map shows. And at Kit Carson you pick up the KP line up to Limon and Denver. But in between, other than crossing the Santa Fe and Missouri Pacific lines, I don't recall there being any railroad alongside US287.
John
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On 12/27/2014 7:39 PM, John McCoy wrote:

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Coming from farther south, that makes sense...we're starting from north of Dalhart (but east, of course), so we have to follow the N-S routes of which there are several choices but absolutely no mileage difference until get up to US50 to Lamar to pick up 287 to cut off the corner. Otherwise it's straight N all the way to Colby to I70 which are the two sides of the triangle...
IIRC, it's several miles N of Lamar before you can see any signs and then it's not directly alongside but off to the west. Good chance never notice it unless you see the trains; it's that far enough away from the actual road...
I couldn't seem to find a map that has both rail and roads on it any more to see more detail...
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On 12/27/2014 7:39 PM, John McCoy wrote:

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Now I've been thinking...I'm not sure but what I've not seen both BNSF and UP power on that stretch...but can't say for absolute certain. Now I'm itching for another trip... :)

That would be US56 from Clayton to Raton, I presume? You stopped at Mt Capulin? It's worth the time imo if haven't. Hadn't been up to peak since was a kid until last fall took a couple of the grandkids up to Eagle Nest/Red River for a while--they only know the Smokies as mountains being in Raleigh so stopped by on the way albeit it's a little out of the way to Cimarron to go north to Raton and back down to get to Eagle Nest. Wife's family has ground west of Clayton that we're the operators for so we head out there fairly frequently--it's out in middle of nowhere but for some mysterious reason NM has a 55 mph speed limit on US 64 on over to Springer--that stretch takes, it seems, forever at that rate. Sometimes for some variety we'll take a NM road from Roy on over to Wagon Mound and up from there; it crosses the upper end of the N Canadian across a nice little canyon for a scenic breakup on the way. Going up to Raton at least gets one closer to the Johnson and Black Mesas and the scattered foothills sooner than on over to Springer for a little more diversion...
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