Re: gone longer than I thought...

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Last year I bought 2&1/2 gals of the 41% concentrate at Costco for $150. Still expensive but much better than buying the quart size bottles. I split it with my neighbor and still have enough to last thru this summer.
Art
"Silvan" wrote > <snip>

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snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net says...

astroturf will require maintenance -- go with river rock or pea gravel.
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Mark & Juanita wrote:

On a more serious note, 20+ years from now I won't have to worry about it so much anyway. I have a willow, a maple, a birch, another birch, three dogwoods, two redbuds, a hawthorn, five or six crab apples, two lilacs, about six roses of sharon, some flavor of eating apple, some hazlenut bushes, a Japanese maple... All this on 1/3 of an acre.
You might say I like trees. :)
OTOH, I planted a buncha Arbor Day trees in Mom's back yard about 15 years ago... They're much, much bigger now, but the grass under them, unfortunately, still requires mowing. It takes a long time to turn a yard back into a forest.
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Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan < snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net>
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Silvan writes:

Stick in some pin oaks. Decent habitat and in 15 years you won't even know there's a lawn under 'em. Wish I'd done that with 90% of mine, instead of only a couple. Branches have a droop to them that brings them right down to the ground, so once they leaf out, any grass that lives through the growth.
Charlie Self "Ambidextrous, adj.: Able to pick with equal skill a right-hand pocket or a left." Ambrose Bierce
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snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote in message (Silvan)

Around here (Pittsburgh, PA) I fairly often see used portable classrooms for sale by schools. These are really double wide trailers with no internal walls. They usually have windows and a door on one wall and the remaining three walls are usable (may have chalkboards, whiteboards or tackboards on them). They are fully wired, fully insulated, have lots of flouresent lighting, and self-contained heating and airconditioning. They tend to be around 800 to 900 square feet. The cost is usually fairly nominal for the size (a couple thousand or so) but you pay to dismantle and move and then set up at your location and you usually are not given a lot of time to do so. I have often thought that if I ever have a home with the land space needed to place one of these I would keep my eyes open or if I ever buy that campsite on the river I would put one of these on it.
Dave Hall
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J T wrote:

Have you *looked* at those things? Considering the POS I have for a shop now, I think I can be forgiven for some panting. They're a lot nicer than I would have imagined.
Just godawful expensive to buy from them.

I'm just not really interested in going that route. I want something that will look nice. Any camper I could get cheap/free would be some dilapidated piece of crap or else it wouldn't be cheap/free. I've invested a great deal of time, effort and more than a little money making my place look nice. I don't want some ugly piece of junk slapped in the middle of my yard. It just isn't going to happen.
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Your neighbors thank you.

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Sun, Apr 18, 2004, 6:03pm snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net (Silvan) says: <snip> I'm just not really interested in going that route. <snip>
Then start checking your local bargain papers. You can find companies willing to sell you kits, erect on your site, with payment plans, etc. Almost any size you want, or are willing to pay for.
Or, check on local guys moonlighting. My shop is only 8X12, for $875. That's what I could afford. Up in one Sat morning, by the guy that sold/made it. He also makes (prefabs), delivers, and sets up, smaller, or up to two car garage size, at least, priced accordingly. Probably cost more if he went out of state. The price was cheaper than the kits I found, and I didn't have to do any of the work. Yes, I could have paid less for materials, and done it myself. However, I would have had to had the materials delivered, it would have been a major pain (no pun intended) for me to construct, considering my joints it would also have been painful, and would have probably taken me a couple of weeks.
One financing option is a signature loan from your bank, for $5,000 or less. Interest rates are a LOT less than credit card, pay off in 2 years, and they can take payments direct from your checking - so one less bill to worry about.
Besides, the campers I've seen are OK on the outside, only trashed on the inside. But, your shop, your money, your choice.
But, if you've got access to a bunch of logs, doesn't matter if they're split or not, cut them in about 1' lengths, and make a cordwood shop building (yep, that's the terminology). Not hard, looks good, cheap. Or, a batch of scraw bales, for a straw straw shop (yup, i'ts a legiitimate type of building practice), check it out. You can make them look as good as you want 2X4 cutoffs. Etc. There's more ways, but I'm gonna make me a cup of something hot to drink.
JOAT The Good are Innocent so they invented Justice. The Evil are Guilty so they invented Mercy. - Unknown
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Silvan writes:

Yuppified. That's ridiculous. You're in an area where ye ol' basic house goes for about $75 a SF finished, including land. Get fancy and you can bump $100. $37.50 is a touch high when there's none of the fancy floors, walls, ceilings, lighting fixtures and plumbing.

Yeah. My shop, 1200 SF, cost me roughly $11,000 to $12,000 bucks. It's not perfect and I'm not a great carpenter, and I was one helluva lot older than you before I got started on it, but my wife and I did 98% of the work ourselves, I scrounged for materials (old tools for windows, used rough, green lumber for much of the framing, etc.). That's with a plywood floor, all the wiring in (200 amp Square D with 40 holes), and a scrounged electric furnace. I popped a couple air conditioners in the windows this past weekend, but those were a couple we had in the house before we put in central air.
Major mistake: do NOT even think about putting up posts before you've got help and material on hand to gird the top. Twisted like a sumbitch and required some fancy stepping to get the thing close to square at the top edge afterwards. In fact, it's still several inches out.
Even scrounged the post holes: a friend down the road came up and drilled 'em with his post hole differ on his tractor.
Helps if you marry a farm girl. At least she will know what end of the shovel goes in the hole when it's time to make the holes a bit larger.
Charlie Self "If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin." Charles Darwin
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charliediy wrote:

AAAARGH!
Change the "ff" to "gg".
Charlie Self "If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin." Charles Darwin
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'em
'S' alright Charlie. Most of us understand what a post hole differ is.(snicker)
--
Nahmie
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
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Charlie, I'm pretty sure Grampa kept his post hole differ in the shed next to his rat hole pounder (for pounding sand into rat holes, of course).
He always promised to teach me how to use the RHP when I was older. Bugger up and died before that happened, when I was only 42.
;-)
--
Was that last sig line lame or what?

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Charlie Self wrote:

Um... Yeah, I guess you're right, even now. That's about what it's going for now that the property values have been artificially inflated county-wide. Until last year, it used to be $37.50. At least tax-wise. About $40 in real life. So I guess that means it's about $80 in real life now, and I have a $160,000 house now. (No, actually, it means I'm just paying taxes out the ass, and I still have an $80,000 house.)

I'm a rock bottom dead crappy carpenter. I have no idea what I'm doing at all. That's kind of a down side.
I think I'd have to be a weenie and use a plan. Maybe even a kit.

The wiring is going to suck bigtime. I either go with separate meters and pay my electric bill twice, or I put a new panel in the house so I can feed out to the new panel in the shop. There's nothing in between. :(

Ugh.

It's a good friend who will let you borrow holes.

That's a big down side. SWMBO is absolutely 100% useless for this. I might get Mom to help. Mom's a farm girl by breeding if not by upbringing, but she's getting old, and she has back/knee/shoulder problems.
On the bright side, by the time I can *actually* afford this, my son will be old enough to help. Hell, he'll probably be as old as I am now by then. :(
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Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan < snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net>
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Silvan wrote:

Mike...
USDA used to publish a couple of how-to books dealing with low-budget rural/agricultural construction that I think might be of some help. What I liked about the books was that they assumed the reader knew nothing about carpentry or construction (that was a fairly apt description of me at the time), had lots of drawings, and maintained a good balance between "how" and "why".
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Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
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Silvan responds:

Yeah. I know about that. We're paying taxes on a house that is worth about half what the evaluation is. I've offered to sell the county the property for the eval, but no takers.
What I am talking about is what a builder is going to charge you for an addition or new structure. $75 a square foot. Has no relation at all to tax rates, which have little relation to reality anyway.

Still not that expensive.

When I get back, I'll see if we can get together and you can go see a friend's shop. He knew zip, or a little less, about wiring. Taught himself. Did a much better job than I did, for a variety of reasons including personality (he has a lot more patience than I do, to start, and is a lot more anal for another...good wiring really requires an anal personality).

Then plan. Plan big. Plan small. Plan medium. Keep planning, using the switch box or graphed paper or a drafting set-up. When you get ready to go, you'll have the plan you need ready. And read. Read everything you can find on carpentry and residential construction and a little on light commercial construction.
It'll keep you out of mischief, too.
Charlie Self "Abstainer: a weak person who yields to the temptation of denying himself a pleasure." Ambrose Bierce
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Silvan wrote:

Maybe some of youse guys that live withing driving distance of Silvan should get together and stick frame him a workshop. One weekend to run plumbing, electrics, and pour a slab, and a second to frame it and close it in. Need a retired contractor or two to put together a plan (windows, barn doors, etc) and to get the dreaded permits. Sign up sheets for volunteers. I'll contribute $50 for donuts and coffee or romex or whatever. Somebody out there want to start this up?     mahalo,     jo4hn
p.s. This could be a biggie, how about Workshops for Woodworkers?
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jo4hn notes:

Hell, I'll try to remember to toss my extra 250' of #12 on the truck this coming weekend as I head down to Bedford. I've also got maybe 75-100' of #10 in the shop down there. But he's gotta come get it. I won't have time to roll up to B'burg. Actually, I'll roll through it twice, at ungodly hours. but without time for a stop. If I got off 460 in that mess around VT, I'd never get back where I need to be.
I got the #12 when I started thinking about rewiring the garage here--until I found out the local rip-off artists that pretend to be a power company wanted a frigging grand to locate a single lousy pole and a meter. Scroom.
Got a framing hammer he can have, too. But not the titanium one.
Charlie Self "Abstainer: a weak person who yields to the temptation of denying himself a pleasure." Ambrose Bierce
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Charlie Self wrote:

How could I resist free donuts? Count me in. Let's get this done before July!
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Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
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Charlie Self wrote:

Hrm... If you wanna toss some wire in my yard as you drive by, I won't object. I'll need it someday, and wire doesn't rot.
But it's going to be several years before any of this comes anywhere close to happening. Dreaming is one thing, but this is all just a big dream right now. It's at least three years before I'm in a position to even start making serious plans. Hafta take a look around myself then and see where I am.
Thanks for everybody's thoughts though. If wishes were workshops than Wreckers would all have 50,000 sq. ft. and a Triple Unisaurus Maximus.
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Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan < snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net>
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Silvan wrote:

... in the entryway ... <g>
-- Mark
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