Re: Do you support educational vouchers in schools?

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Ah - then you have cites. Please let us know where you may have any underpinnings to your rantings here.
What books have you published?
Banty
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Are you "John Gatto"? Yes or no.
Banty
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You said you had written books and your wife had homeschooling websites. I asked for cites. You said "John Gatto" I asked if you were him. You said "no".
So we're back to those books supposedly you (no, not John Gatto) have written.
Cites to your book, please.
Banty
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wrote:

You claimed your wife wrote one.
-- Dorothy
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The Outer Limits
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Take woodworking out of your send to group. We don't care about vouchers.

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Here's a better idea.... either killfile the posters, or the entire thread. When people respond, they don't know where the originating post came from, so it makes sense to include all groups.
Nan

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wrote:

You are not Gatto.
-- Dorothy
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Your name is not John Gatto.
I have previously posted numerous refutations of Gatto's shoddy, false, and undocumented assertions about the schools.
But you've been given a chance to freely and relevantly promote your wife's books and website, and are failing to do so. This leads people to believe you are a fraud.
lojbab
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lojbab snipped-for-privacy@lojban.org
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
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Since my postings contain criticisms that I developed myself, after researching that his posted information was false, there is nothing "standard" about what I wrote.

I don't give a shit about your wife; I wouldn't buy her book. It is YOUR credibility that is at stake. You spout your ideological bullshit, but have nary a verifiable fact to support anything you claim. Well the claim that your wife is selling a book could be at least slightly supported by a URL.

I meet lots of real people. You aren't one of them; you are a phony.
lojbab
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Your credibility on Usenet is.

Nope.
So we know you aren;t yet another ideological blowhard (i.e. liar)

No. Homeschooling is good for some, indifferent for some, not worth the hassle for many, and impossible for many.

It is satisfactory. At least, so the public rates the public schools in the annual Kappan poll.
There is always room for improvement.
lojbab
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Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
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On Mon, 30 May 2005 06:49:28 -0400, Bob LeChevalier

Here is the crux of the matter. What these folks don't seem to understand is that as a society, we are attempting to educate all of our children.
I've had experience with many homeschoolers. There are some that do a very good job, but in general once the student is past elementary school, they don't homeschool themselves, they hire tutors or send the student to classes at local colleges or have them take distance learning classes. Those options do work well. But parents who don't have the resources to pay for those options don't do as well at teaching their children through the academic high school classes unless they themselves have a college education and good grasp of the subject matter above the high school level. That's not *bad,* it is simply a fact of life. When you talk about parents who are poor and don't have any education themselves, homeschooling beyond the basics becomes impossible or *iffy.* I have met several kids who returned to the public schools well behind where their classmates were. Even in this school though there were kids who failed. I doubt that homeschooling would have provided them with anything better, though. Do you really think a parent who is a crack addict or alcoholic can homeschool her child?
I have no quarrel at all with people who choose to homeschool as long as they manage to teach to a minimum standard of academics. I do think though that children need to have some empathy for those who have less than they do and whose parents are not able to provide the same things that their parents can provide.

Unfortunately, public schooling is quite uneven. There are very good public schools (my ds and dd attended one of the best and got an education that surpasses that of many kids who were attending their colleges from other high schools). Even in poor schools, btw, there are often kids who end up with good educations. The inner city school I taught at for 8 years had an honors program that allowed the best of our kids to attend and succeed at excellent universities. One of my favorite honor students attended University of Chicago in its program for marine biology.

Absolutely.
-- Dorothy
There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens ..
The Outer Limits
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IS THIS A WOODWORKING NEWS GROUP????????????????????????????????????????????
wrote:

BAD
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Look at the headers.
I rarely snip headers when responding as I don't know which group the original came from. I have tried to remember to clip out the woodworking group, but usually I just reply to all. Please killfile the thread if it bothers you. The thread is relevant on mk and me. I will attempt to cut rw out, but most people will not do this, so you are going to have to deal with that fact.
-- Dorothy
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TAKE THE WOODWORKING NEWSGROUP OUT OF YOUR SUBJECT TITLE! UNLESS U WANT TO TALK ABOUT OUR HOBBY.
Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
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Bully for you. But irrelevant.
I'm referring to the game you are playing on this thread.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care


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Don wrote:

--------------------- You're a delusional posturing liar. Steve
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wrote:

So you will privately fund the fire and police services for yourself and self-insure.

I was never in Kansas, but nevermind.
I believe that we should have a federal education system as Germany, Switzerland and other first world countries do and I believe that we ought to fund this system through federal taxes. We should NOT fund church schools in any way as the separation of church and state is part of what made the United States unique and keeps us strong. It's not popular to say this, but states' rights keeps us from having the education we need all over the country. The standard should be quite high, imo, but it should also allow for several paths. We should not necessarily insist that every student has to go to college, but that option should be open to them for a longer time. Thus a student who drops out of high school academics may need to have vocational options open, but be allowed to return to the academic track when and if s/he decides that s/he needs it and will work for it. We should not depend on property taxes to fund our schools either since this causes the disparity between the schools in wealthy areas and schools in poor areas. We need to bring the funding for poor schools up to the standard where it needs to be. My ds and dd went to a great public school in the suburbs of Chicago. The property taxes for that school were quite high. I taught in an inner city school where the funding was inadequate. The students there were *not* the problem, but the fact is that we had fewer resources to enable them to go on to college and they needed *more* not less.
We should also standardize our curriculum so that if a student in New Hampshire takes Algebra I and moves to a school in Florida or Mississippi or California, the course he has taken is the same course in all those schools and he doesn't have to start over because the Algebra I course in Mississippi covered quadratics, but his course did not. Call a course by a name that makes sense and cover the same topics in that course all over the country.
-- Dorothy
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wrote:

Except that if you do return in 5 days, I won't be answering you any further. You have no arguments to present, just ad hominems.
-- Dorothy
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Is this money for woodworking classes?
If not, what's it have to do with this news group.
wrote:

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For the purpose of teaching people to read the Bible.
But public education was present in many societies before this; as far as can be told, universal literacy for boys became almost mandatory in Judaism 2500 years ago. The education was by groups of parents hiring teachers, with the community paying the bill for those too poor.
While the Talmud has many restrictions on competition, it specifically allows a teacher to open his school right next to that of another; this would be prohibited for a grocer. So the idea that competition was a good idea in education was present.k

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