Re: Do you support educational vouchers in schools?

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The reason you crossposted to rec.woodworking is......??
Banty
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hey...why are you posting on rec woodworking?....perhaps you might need some higher education so you will know how to post correctly
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Rec.woodworking? Hi Tim!
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http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?enc_author=AOqmjhEAAADY0Tsfcdlr4VvaVC2Tl2bZIZ6HvvJW0y4Pue0pYgAOJQ
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On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 02:13:52 +0000 (UTC), "Bob Coleslaw"

The latter.
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As I have stated often, if you gave me an unlimited amount of money and an unlimited amount of power, I could not fix up the public schools in less than a generation.
This is a time when we do not need a central plan. The main problem of the public schools is the idea that all children should learn essentially the same; this was introduced about 70 years ago, and is now institutionalized. Most parents who do not have gifted children would want anything else, and we have had cases of parents objecting to their children not getting in honors classes, often with disastrous results.
Unless we can make it very expensive for teachers and administrators to ever hold a child back because of age, and make "No child left behind" to mean "no child left behind what that child can accomplish", there is no hope for the public schools. The differences in mental abilities dwarfs those in physical abilities.
--
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are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
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On 31 Mar 2005 14:35:44 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@odds.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) wrote:

I want you to pay damages to all those graduate students who failed to learn anything in your classes, Herman.
-- Dorothy
There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens ..
The Outer Limits
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Converted to the public school model, you would have teachers pay damages to those whose mental abilities were not up to being able to learn, or who for some other reason, did not learn. A teacher can only supply the opportunity and SOME help, not guarantee learning, as you are hinting.
I was criticizing the teachers who put obstacles in the path of learning, not those who did not succeed with all. I always expect the background with little review, and will not use anything not supposed for the course without careful explanation. And I will not leave anything out because of "lack of time".
As for holding a student back, I have never done that. Nor have I not allowed a student to take a course because of not having the formal prerequisites, although I have advised students, after careful discussion, that I thought they were not sufficiently advanced for the course. Read what I was saying.
--
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Ah well, here it goes..
Homeschooling is the answer. Public schooling consumes $5K to $10K per student per year. Homeschool families can do a much better job with less than 10% of that. Want a HUGE TAX BREAK?. Encourage home schooling! The side effects will be a better educated population, more mature young people, responsible parents, and a society that values the family.
"Outsourcing" the education of children and young adults is a BAD IDEA.
What are the arguments against?
Can't afford it? One can homeshool for a few hundered dollars a year, if that; probably nothing if you are resourceful.
Can't do it; ain't smart enough? Learning takes motivation. Get some. Be resourceful. Ask a friend or neighbor to educate you on your weaker subjects. Teach the kid to read, and they can virtually education themselves. Teach yourself something. You might find out you have a hidden talent your public schooling never tapped.
Not enough time? What are you wasting your time on? TV? Both parents working? Too greedy to give up your time for the future of your children? A kid goes to school for what.. 6 hours or so. 2 of that is recess and lunch, and this n' that. So maybe 4 hours in the classroom. Probably half of that is wasted away on disciplinary issues, 30:1 teacher ratios, etc. You can do better.
Live in a state that basically forbids homeshooling? Move.
Your child will suffer socially? Yeah, we live in a society that lacks so much opportunity to interact. Do you know your neighbors? Invite them to dinner. How about your brother or sister? Or parents? Or maybe someone at Church, or community group? Make some friends and spend time with them.
The school system and teachers are the experts? I want the best for my kid. What do they know about your kid? What kind of expert consistently runs overbudget and consistently produces a poorer and poorer product? That's not even the point. Whose responsibility is it to raise your child?
Both parents have to work. Probably not. They may have to lower their standard of living. That's a poor choice of words. They'll be spending more time as a family, in essence much improving their standard of living.
Single parent. How come? (There are some valid reasons) Your public schooling decayed your morals and you made some bad choices? Find support in your community. Be resourceful. Set a better example for your children. Leverage your family. Read the above statement in regards to "Not enough time".
Ah.. this list can go on and on and on. You are either bubbling with enthusiasm or steaming with resentment. Take responsiblity for your emotions and actions. Then for your children. Or move to another country where the governemt will "take care of you". I hear Burma and North Korea are pretty good at that.
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nospam snipped-for-privacy@mesanetworks.net says...

The side effects will be a population brainwashed to believe what their parents believe, regardless of facts. Most home schoolers are bible thumpers.
Newspaper article today pointed out that John Dean supporters are better educated and less religious than the general population. That's certainly not the first time that there's been a negative correlation between education and religion.
And that's what most of the home schoolers are trying to avoid :-).
--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

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says...

Well spoken. From your bigotry may we assume you were home schooled?
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I'm bigoted? Because I don't believe in an adult version of Santa Claus?
AFAIK, none of us cynical agnostics have blown up any abortion clinics, insisted on prolonging a poor womans possible suffering to advance their agenda, handled rattlesnakes to prove their faith, or prayed for WWIII on the grounds it'll bring on the second coming.
And no, I don't believe the world was created 6000 years ago and fossils are just god's little joke - or was that satan's ploy? It's so hard to keep up with all the flat earth types :-).
--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

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wrote in message

their
No, you're bigoted because you stereotype and denigrate others.
You're also insufferably ignorant, apparently, of their belief, and arrogant about yours.
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Wow! I guess I've been excommunicated by the new pope!
--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

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So instead, you believe that, unlike true logical thought, in which, "ex nihilo, nihil fit" -- "out of nothing, nothing comes" is a fundamental premise of logical reasoning and scientific inquiry, you substitute "out of nothing, everything came" in which, with no causative agent, the universe just exploded into being at 3:00 one Thursday afternoon?
The statements you have made are in no way indicative of the comments of an agnostic, who acknowledges, "he just doesn't know", your comments are actually those of an athiest who vehemently denies the existence of a God or Supreme Being and strongly agitates for the suppression of expressions by those who do do hold religious faith.
Thus your other comments about those who believe as you have never caused mayhem in the name of their religion is also belied -- as those subject to persecution under the Stalinists and the current religious believers being persecuted in China can attest.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety Army General Richard Cody +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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snipped-for-privacy@hadenough.com says...

I find it strange that those who say something had to create the universe then turn around and postulate a "supreme being" that according to them, didn't need a creator. Seems like begging the question to me. Or, as Terry Pratchett put it "it's turtles, all the way down."
And no, I'm not an atheist, if for no other reason than a negative cannot be proved. For that matter, try understanding the terms "infinity" or "nothing" - you and I can quote the definition, but our brains are incapable of really grasping the reality. For example, our brains may understand the idea of atoms, but tend to give a big "Yeah, right" when told the toe they stubbed was mostly empty space :-).
I do assume, based on the number of different religions present and past, that if there is a creator, or creators, that the odds are very slim that anyone on earth understands his/her/it's/they're requirements for salvation. Indeed, they can't even agree on the existence or nature of life after death.
Most people base their religious beliefs on nothing more than the culture they grew up in. Not exactly the act of a (supposedly) intelligent species.
--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

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snipped-for-privacy@hadenough.com says...

The 3 most important words in the English language are "I don't know." Inventing a supreme being or beings and all the attendant theology in order to avoid admittance of that fact seems excessive to me.
We're not going to convince each other of anything, so I'm going to drop this thread here.
I will admit to one disadvantage in this discussion - if I'm right, you'll never know it :-).
--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

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lgb wrote:

...
OTOH, there's always the potential consequences if he's right... :)
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Pascal's Wager?
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George wrote:

One popular expression, yes...
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