RE: Cudos to Apex Tool Group

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On 3/22/2015 7:30 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

Well substitute any of those and I feel that with varying degrees all provide more of a service to society than than very highly paid game players and entertainers.

I totally understand and agree. And I don't condemn those that pursue those goals. We probably have the best system in that it lets us go in the direction that we want to go. BUT it is not the perfect system. Think about this, in all actuality entertainers/game players are getting paid more each year and the educators teaching our children are being paid less. Do we really want to give more recognition and pay to those that entertain and don't educate our children? I think it is pretty obvious that kids education and aptitude today are farther behind than kids 40 years ago. Not all of them but the percentages are growing. We seem to have a snow ball effect going on.
And anything socialism is out the door. Actually anything that any government does to guide our thoughts is out the door. I just think that we as "consumers" should rethink what we are spending our money on. It does not bother me that anyone makes what they want for a living so much as the value the consumer puts on some professions compared to others. You know if the government actually cared about education it would make things better but the dumber and more dependent the population is the easier it is to get the population to go along with bigger government.
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On 3/23/15 9:56 AM, Leon wrote:

I wouldn't argue with you about teachers. However, in some areas they make up over 70, 80 grand a year, with all those breaks and summer. :-)
People will spend lots of money to go to professional sporting events, but won't vote to raise property taxes to fund local schools. So in a way they are making the choice to place entertainer above teachers.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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On 3/23/2015 11:32 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

There are problems there too. You have homeowners with no kids that don't see the benefit of having a well educated society.
The other problem is the value received. The US spends more per pupil for education than any other country, yet we are ranked about low for education. Why is that?
Pathetic showing here for science and math. http://www.businessinsider.com/pisa-rankings-2013-12
Here we are ranked #20 http://worldtop20.org/
Here we are No. 14 http://m.thelearningcurve.pearson.com/index/index-ranking
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On 3/23/2015 1:20 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Inappropriately spending of that money. And they probably allow way too much restriction to helping the brighter students so that Johnny does not feel left behind. Hand that boy a trophy. If we allowed our teachers to teach, what they probably do best, instead of helping students memorize the progress tests and put an end to BS behavior which they are afraid to correct or not allowed to control, it would be a good start.

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On 3/23/2015 10:32 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

I don't believe the government needs more money to shift what it has towards education. And for that matter the government in the Houston area of the woods does not often ask for tax rate changes, they simply over value the value of your home to get more revenue.
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wrote:

Six figures isn't unusual, with retirement packages worth 80-100% of the highest year salary.

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wrote:

(Not believing it)
Consider this, though. The entertainer/game player is making more money for is boss every year. The average educator is *not* teaching.

Yes. Recent history shows that paying teachers more doesn't produce anything but more debt and dumber students.

That's the beauty. You can choose to spend your money on anything you want. Well, after the socialistic government takes it's hand out of your wallet.

Some professions are *worth* more than others.
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On 3/23/2015 8:44 PM, snipped-for-privacy@zzz.com wrote:

If you put 2 stiches on a wound that requires plastic surgery to correct you still have a severe problem. Basically if you increase pay to the educational system but fall far short of what is needed it is a waste of money.

And what reason do you think that the the government has turned more socialistic? Could it be ill educated voters? If our population was smarter it would have a smaller government if it is not too late now.

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wrote:

Utter nonsense. There is FAR too much money being spent on education now. More is not always more. Unless you fix the real problems, more money is wasted. Once you fix those problems, more money isn't needed. Much less, in fact.

Yer kiddin', right?
Because the government is stealing more money from some and giving it to others (after taking a huge cut to feed itself). Because government is micro managing the economy. Because government is picking winners and losers. Because government is forcing you to buy what you don't want. There are about a thousand more reasons.
No, the voters are smart enough to vote themselves a piece of the treasury.

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On 3/24/2015 7:54 PM, snipped-for-privacy@zzz.com wrote:

Brilliant. Explain to me how to fix what needs to be fixed with out spending money.

I can see that I am waiting my time trying to point out the obvious.
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wrote:

1) Start by getting rid of teacher's unions, then get rid of teachers who aren't pulling their weight (just as every other business does).
2) Fire 90% of all administrators and use that money to improve facilities.
3) Get rid of the Department of Education. They're a drag on the whole process. More useless (and *expensive*) overhead certainly isn't needed.
4) Give parents, particularly in inner cities, portable vouchers to take their kids where they want.
5) Unfortunately there isn't a lot that you can do with parents but you can take children who want to excel out of failing schools and put them in charter schools. Force parents to participate in these schools. Warehouse the rest of the kids.
6) Teach RRRs, civics, history, and such. Forget "Heather has two mommies".
I'm sure there are many others.

It should be pretty plain. Stealing from Peter to pay Paul is a big part of it, but see the other post.

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On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 8:32:28 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@zzz.com wrote:

...snip...

The following are all good ideas. I just have a few questions.

- Who will be responsible for this task? (See your item #3)

- Who will be responsible for this task? (See your item #3)

- Who will be responsible for this task?
- Once this task is completed, who will be responsible for your items 1, 2, 4 & 5?

- Who will be responsible for this task? (See your item #3)

- What methods do you suggest to take kids out of failing schools and put them in charter schools at no cost?
- What means do you suggest for forcing parents to participate?
- Who will be responsible for these tasks? (See your item #3)
- Please define "Warehouse the rest of the kids."

...snip...
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On 3/25/2015 9:25 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Going back a number of years, schools were run like that. They have become bloated with top level administrators that add nothing to the education. Too many regulations.
To implement, just set the clock back about 50 years and use the old playbook on how to run a school. It worked. It was much cheaper.
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Exactly right. All I did is list some of the changes.
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On 3/25/2015 8:32 PM, snipped-for-privacy@zzz.com wrote:

Won't work. I can work, but the teacher union and politicians won't let it happen.
My high school in Philadelphia had 3200 students and 4 or 5 people in the office. Where I live now, he don't have that many pupils in the entire school system, yet we have a full school board and many administrators in each of the schools and the assistants have assistants. .
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It happened in WI. It *can* happen elsewhere. It *will* happen but it might take a major crash first.

I found a report on VT schools, a couple of years ago (which was quickly taken down). Basically, statewide, they had a classroom teacher for every 13 students. For every two classroom teacher, they had not only a teacher's aid but a non-classroom teacher. That's a student to teacher ratio of 6.5:1. That doesn't even count administration, which was equally absurd. Yeah, there's a lot of places to cut without even touching the students but they're irrelevant.
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wrote:

If the actor makes the producers $500,000,000, I'd say he was worth every penny of it.

No, people pay for what *THEY* value. No more.
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On 3/22/2015 7:12 PM, snipped-for-privacy@zzz.com wrote:

That is the part that can be difficult to quantify. Sure, people will go because Clint Eastwood stars in a movie, but would it be just as good with Bob Westwood who earns $20 an hour?
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On 3/22/2015 9:49 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Or a teacher? I can see where every one that does not see the problem comes from. All of us have been brought up to think this way. But put more emphasis on education vs. things that are not as important and we are all better off.
Almost all of us complain about the shape that our government and our country is in. The one thing that can make things better is to better educate our selves, our children, and their children. But our society glamorizes sports and entertainment over being educated so that is where the money goes. That IMHO is a recipe for disaster.
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It's not difficult to quantify at all. Hollywood knows what star power is worth. They have a track record to go by (which is also why male actors are paid significantly more than female).

Certainly not because as you suggest, no one will spend the $20-$30 to go see Bob Westwood. They *will* fork over to see Dirty Harry say "So do ya' punk?!".
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