Re: Compressed air lines

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On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:03:22 -0500, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"

The line is specifically designed for high pressure compressed air and does not shatter, it isn't PVC. I took to a one inch offcut with a hammer and I only managed to squash it, like hitting copper.
cheers,
Greg
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Did you look at his reference material? The product is designed for exactly the purpose to which he applied it. Polyethylene is NOT PVC.
-- ******** Bill Pounds http://www.billpounds.com
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Got a link? I'd like to read about the stuff, I'm tired of dragging hose around.
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To view the pipe: http://www.polair.com.au/tips_install.html
http://www.polair.com.au for the actual home page.
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On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:03:22 -0500, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"

_WHY_ are you posting this alarmist crap ?
It's polyethlene and polypropylene. I've personally installed miles of this stuff into factories worldwide - perfectly reasonable materials to use (a little damage prone, compared to steel, but then it doesn't rust either). Even the gas mains running underneath my street are a very similar material (higher molecular weight, so it welds better).
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Have you priced black pipe lately? Astronomical
It would be at least double your estimate
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FYI Larry, in US dollars, McMaster -Carr lists it at $5.97 per foot. I used 65 feet. 65 x $5.97 = $388.05
Using 126" lengths it is $42.80 per length. I'd need just over 6 lengths, even then it works out at $264.95.
Then, you need to buy joiners, saddles, tape or hemp, a cutting tool, deburrer, reducers etc.
I think I got a better deal somehow, remember that I paid $290 for everything, including all fittings.
Spec used was :
Shape Pipe: Pipe Size 1" Finish: Black Steel: Black Welded Steel Pipe to Pipe Connection: NPT Male x Butt-Weld Schedule: 40 Outside Diameter: 1.315" Inside Diameter: 1.049" Wall Thickness: .133" Length: 12" Specifications Met: ASTM A53 and A733
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Better places to buy black pipe than MC, prices are probably 3X of what I can buy it for. But for the ease of installation, you did good! Greg
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Pipe has skyrocketed in the past year. I called the plumbing supply about a length of 4" pipe and was shocked at the price. (IIRC, it was about $12 a foot!) He said the mills are not even giving prices when you order, it will be determined at the time of shipment. MC is a little high, but not the 3X you stated.
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McMaster-Carr and Grainger are industrial sources. In other words, they're the source for "If you've got to have it RIGHT NOW and the boss is paying for it, we're your source!"
They've got everything, and can deliver it on the next UPS truck. But they're not the best source for comparing prices on anything.
Kevin
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Kevin Craig wrote:

Our company gets significant discounts from either source's list price.
Barry
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Larry, that definitely is NOT it. That is low pressure water pipe, I have some here too. This pipe is blue and is about 3/8" wall thickness.

Check my price post.

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calmly ranted:

Gotcha. But low-pressure water pipe is 4x underrated for safety. When it says 90psi, it can handle 360. I saw other tubing listed by other makers in 3, 5, 7, and 13mm wall and think it would be easier to use than black iron pipe. But I have an 8.5' ceiling (thank goodness) so an air drop would work for me I already hang an electrical extension cord from there so I can use power hand tools on any given machine.

A those prices, I'm certainly not going to buy pipe from McMaster. It's much cheaper from my local plumbing/electrical supply store. ($8.95 for 10' of 1/2", $9.95 for 10' of 3/4", didn't price 1") Here's how I use 3/4" pipe in my shop today, floor through ceiling:
http://www.diversify.com/wood/sheetgoodcart.jpg ;)
-- "Menja b, caga fort!"
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RE: Subject
Having designed and installed a few compressed air distribution for industrial application, will offer the following:
1) The distribution plumbing is part of the storage system. 2) The larger the pipe used, the slower the air travels down the pipe. 3) The slower the air travels down the pipe, the less water it can carry to the tool since the air is also cooler. 4) If the air must reverse direction, it will help trapped water drop out of the air. 5) The less water, the less problems and the longer the life of the equipment.
Based on the above, consider the following:
1) Find a plumbing supply house or plumbing contractor that will work with you.
You would be surprised what a case of beer after 5:00 PM can accomplish if approached in the right manner.
2) Cut a full 20 ft length of 2" pipe (THAT'S RIGHT, 2 INCH PIPE) into either 4 or 8 equal pieces and thread both ends of each piece as required.
3) Assemble the cut pieces together to reform the 20 ft length using 2"x2"x3/4" reducing tees (2" run x 2" run x 3/4" side).
4) Assemble so that 3/4" openings are all facing the same direction.(I use nothing but Teflon paste as a pipe dope for threaded pipe)
5) On one end, assemble a 2"x2"2" tee using the side connection. Assemble so that 2" openings are lined up with the 3/4" openings.
6) Plug the 2" opening that is on the same side as the 3/4" openings.
7) On the opposite 2" opening install a petcock fitting that can be used as a drain using required reducing bushings.
8) On the opposite end of the 20 ft assembly, install another 2"x2"x2" tee, exactly as was done on the opposite end.
9) Plug the top opening (3/4" side) with a 2" plug.
10) The bottom fitting will be where the hose from the compressor will be connected.
11) At each 3/4" side tee opening, install two (2), 3/4" street ells such that the air must change direction 180 degrees.
12) Hang this assembly using pipe hangers and threaded rod with the 3/4" side openings facing up and the hole thing pitched about 1 to 12 with the drain petcock on the low end.
13) Connect tool hoses as required. Plug any unused openings.
14) Connect the compressor to the pipe using at least a 3/4" hose. (You may have to have this hose made up, is so, use 1") Don't be surprised if this isn't the most expensive item in the system.
You have just accomplished several things:
1) Storage capacity is increased about 3.25 gallons for every 20 ft of 2" pipe installed which has lots of benefits. When it comes to storage, more is better.
2) The pipe serves as a great water trap as well as delivering cooler air to the tool. (The secret is the reversal of the air and the size of the pipe)
3) All tool hoses hang straight down thus reducing stress reversals of the hose.
4) The cyclic loading on the compressor is reduced since storage capacity is increased, thus helping to reduce the temperature of the delivered air. (Lower temperature, less water)
As the old saying goes, there ain't no free lunch, but this is an investment that will pay on big dividends over the years.
Just to clarify:
1) All pipe is Sch 40, black iron. 2) All fittings are 125/150 lb, black iron.
Enjoy,
Lew
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On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 21:22:11 GMT, Lew Hodgett

<snip>
Excellent post Lew, I wish I'd read it before installing my system as there are a few things I'd do differently.
A few tips given to me by the installer/sales guy were 1,2,3 and 5. Plus he mentioned the plastic is more thermally stable than pipe.
The other tip he gave was to coil the hose from the compressor to the system on the concrete as it will help cool the air somewhat before it went into the main line.
I did consider using 2" to 4" pipe but I had to run it behind a roller door where I didn't have the space available.
Your post would make a good FAQ.
cheers,
Greg
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Groggy wrote:

<snip>
Thank you.
The real secret for the home shop kind of person is to work a deal with a local contractor, otherwise, you can't gain economical access to 2" cutting and threading equipment.
Building a boat as I am, you would be amazed at some of the deals I make with the neighbors in this industrial area.
Could probably write a book about it.<G>
Lew
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Groggy wrote:

Forgot to mention:
Nobody in their right mind tries to thread anything above 2" pipe.
After that it is welding and flanges.
Unless you have access to the equipment, anything above 2" is strictly industrial and requires some serious material handling equipment.
Designed a system for a 100 x 100 ft industrial facility where they used 8" runs against the outer walls on two (2) sides, then crossed the other way with 4" runs every 25 ft.
The take offs were street ells located on the 4" pipe.
Located a 100HP compressor at each end of the building and that was it.
The distribution system was the storage system.
This was new construction which made it a valid choice.
Trying to do that in a plant full of machinery would be tough.
Don't know if the place even exists any more.
Lew
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On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 00:38:17 GMT, Lew Hodgett

The 4" pipe I referred to was the polyethlene, Scaling up is relatively simple with this stuff, it can also be welded if you know how (I don't).
As an aside, my BIL has some old oxy or acetylene cylinders from the gas company that he uses to trap moisture and for extra storage. inlet at the top and he put a drain in the bottom. Four of them lined up across the back of his shed give him a huge amount of air when needed.
Greg
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I used to routinely thread 4" and 6" iron and black iron pipe. Just use a 4" to 2" reducer and chuck a bit of 2" in the Rigid power threader and hold a hand-threader at the end of the 4" pipe. A bit of a pain, but it works.
scott
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In typed:

There you go thinking again...instead of researching.
--
Ted Harris
http://www.tedharris.com
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