Well, it was a little less than clear to me when he responded to my first
post what he was trying to say, so I restated it. I even said at the time
that I was making his point by providing a specific example. Do you have
some need to call attention to yourself by being a jag? Leon and I don't
seem to have a problem, so why are you butting in? Go bother someone else.
On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 06:40:45 -0700, firstname.lastname@example.org
We've got H&L in our shop. When we have them. Our purchasing agent seems to
rarely want to buy them. Of course he's also the owner, shop foreman, designer
and payroll manager, so I guess he can do whatever the *&$%$# he wants.
Still sans fingerprints.
Assuming you are going to buy a ROS with a round pad.
Something to consider, how many 5" or 6" disks can you cut out of a single
sheet of sand paper.
I believe is the correct answer. I pay 25 cents per PSA sheet bought in
quantities of 50. This is Non Loading Silicon Carbide sand paper. Can you
buy adhesive and sand paper and make your own for less the 25 cents each?
The same quality 9 x 11" paper in Kingspor brand will cost you 48 cents per
sheet in quantities of 50. 120 grit.
I am a very serious abrasives user.
Building a fiberglass boat means lots of sanding and a lot of abrasives are
needed to get the job done.
Have been forced to use PSA discs for certain applications since there is
nothing else available.
(Try buying 8" discs to fit a foam pad in anything but PSA. 3M, Green
Stik-It in boxes of 25 is basically what is available.)
IMHO, PSA is a complete waste of time and a total PITA if you can get H&L.
Dust is not a problem with H&L, something you can not say about PSA.
H&L pads do not have to be cleaned frequently. Can't say the same about PSA.
I buy 6", H&L discs for less than $30/100, delivered to my door.
If that is too big a cost nut for you, maybe you should think about another
S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
On the flip side of that coin, I don't see the time loss even after using
PSA for 15+ years.
Perhaps fiberglass dust is a problem or perhaps you purchased old paper.
However I personally have never had a dust problem at all with PSA when
sanding wood. Back in the late 70's I ran an automotive body shop and we
bought the 3M PSA paper in rolls of 250. Even the bondo dust was not a
problem for the PSA papers, as long as the paper was reasonably "fresh" and
had not been setting on the shelf for too long of a period. In the late
80's and early 90's I was the GM for a 3M wholesale distributor and had my
choice and no cost to me to any of the papers that we sold. I became sold
on the PSA paper. PSA out sold H&L probably 10 to 1. On thing that may
play a problem with PSA however is the temperature. I live in SE Texas and
have not had to deal with a cold environment. The colder temperature might
keep the adhesive from sticking well. Personal preference I guess as I so
not benefit to either type of paper except for cost.
Humm... I cannot remember the last time that I had to clean the pad. And
after several rolls of paper I don[t recall more than 3 or 4 times.
Still a little more than my local supplier for 50 PSA individually backed
for $12.88 in 5" or 6" holled or not. I will say though that you are
getting a good price on your H&L.. Who are you buying from?
Not really a cost thing to me as I pass the cost on to the customer. I do
this for a living now. I just prefer the PSA.
I see a lot of comments from guys like myself who do both body work and
Right now I don't own a RAS but I've been looking at them in a half hearted
way. I do need to replace my DA though which has been a good soldier for a
long time, but which leaks more air than a fat man at a saurkraut festival.
The whole issue of a new DA is bigger than just buying one because I now
only have a smaller compressor which just gets the sh*t kicked out of it by
a DA and unless today's DA's are more compressor friendly, this just won't
get any better. I've been wondering about the ability of the ROS products
that are out there, to do the work of a DA. Haven't really compared
anything as yet, but am wondering what you guys who dabble in both worlds
like I do might have to think. Will a ROS stand up to the role of a DA for
autobody? These days I paint or repair 2-3 cars a year, on average so we're
not talking daily use, but you know how it gets when you do pull a car in...
I think the answer is, how much do you use the sander and how often do you
change grits, and last but not least what grits do you use. Try buying 600
grit H&L at the local borg. I bought a PC H&L sander to sand the peeling
paint off my ML's garage, thinking that when I was done I could use it for
WWing, wrong, halfway through the job the hooks wouldn't hold the discs on
any more so I sanded off the remaining hooks and cut my own discs(3 three to
the sheet) and sprayed them with 3m 77, works great. Removal is a breeze
with a heat gun.
"Shut up and keep diggen"
Couple more thoughts to those already posted.
PSA supposedly produces a flatter surface (particularly for those who
measure things in micro millimeters;-).
A solution to changing grits is to have additional pads (not sanding
disks; the pads that hold the paper) for the sander and stick the
different grits you need for a project onto each pad. Three is
probably a good number, but you might be able to get away w/2 if you
tend to fully use up a disk on a project and can replace it with the
That said, if you're an occasional user, just getting started, etc.
and don't want to immediately invest in multiple pads, I'd suggest H&L
since you can change out the grits much more easily and avoid wasting
the non-restickable PSA that you remove.
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