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raid on Gibson Guitar

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>>>>>>>>>>> basilisk

Much of this is, IME, nothing more than figment of the imagination, followed up by clever marketing, much like with the "audiophile" business.

I've recorded albums with some of the best acoustic musicians, violin, guitar, mandolin and banjo players in the world and I guarantee you without qualification that 90% of any perceived "tone" in an instrument comes from the "hands" of the player and makes up the 10% difference.

IOW, Tony Rice can make a Sears Silvertone sound like Clarence White's D-28. BTDT. :)

Reply to
Swingman
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basilisk

I would say that it doesn't make much difference to the listener except for the listener who is playing! I can definitely know the difference when I am playing a fine guitar with rosewood back and sides. I don't own one--but I can tell the difference when I play one...lol.

I will up your estimate, and say that at least 98% of the musicality of a performance comes from the player and not from the instrument. A good player will appreciate a fine instrument even if his or her listeners can't tell the differene. In fact, he or she is likely to leave a good instrument at home and bring a cheap copy on stage. How many Lucille's (sp) do you suppose BB King has?

Reply to
Bill

No doubt there is a lot of hype, and a lot of self-delusion when it comes to vintage instruments and vintage components of instruments and/or components made of rare materials. As you say, most famous players sound the same whether they're playing an instrument delivered in an armored car or one that came from the flea market. Which is not to say it is *all* smoke and mirrors, but whenever people convince themselves that something made of unobtainium is waaaay better sure as hell somebody will make a pile of money providing the unobtainium version.

Reply to
DGDevin

Banjo bridges are easy to replace, so that's the first place someone will try to upgrade the sound. Practicing might do them better.

Reply to
Father Haskell

What an accomplished musician can do with a guitar made from a cigar box and a piece of 1 x 2 is revelation.

Reply to
Father Haskell

Sharper attack, longer wear.

Reply to
Father Haskell

I once heard a young guitar student ask his teacher what should be the first electronic gadget he should buy to sound better. The teacher told him to use the money for a case of strings and wear them out practicing.

Reply to
DGDevin

It is worth mentioning that the amount of attention given to cutting the wood (of a given species) counts for quite a lot too . IMO, That's the feature that most markedly affects the price of a new instument. Of course, a luthier's reputation for making excellent instruments may allow the seller to charge another grand or two. Go to Elderly Instruments for more details.

Reply to
Bill

"There are no banjos in Heaven/There are some things even Jesus can't forgive"

Reply to
Steve

administration against Gibson, you have to read the affidavit filed in support of the search warrant:

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seized wood is described in the affidavit as in the form of "sawn logs" 510-530 x 75/70 x 10mm.

IOW, each of the 1250 pieces seized is roughly 20" x 3" x 13/32".

Read paragraph 14, page six of the affadavit and you will see that India allows export of this particular wood up to 6mm thick (due to the high complexity of involved in cutting these thin sheets to a uniform commercial quality)

IOW, it must be cut to that thickness by Indian workers at Indian factories, insuring Indian jobs.

IOW, the raid on Gibson's facilities, with guns drawn, disrupting the production and jobs of workers at one of the few American companies still "manufacturing" products is based on a difference of 5/32" of thickness, AND TO PROTECT INDIAN WOODWORKING JOBS.

How many of you, experienced woodworkers, could look at bundles of these pieces and tell that there is up to 4mm (5/32") difference in thickness in the pieces?

Do you really think that Gibson should be held accountable, and be subject to a police action, computers seized, production disrupted, jobs lost, by buying rough stock, sight unseen, that is approximately 1/8" thicker than it's supposed to be?

What it boils down to is that US is enforcing India's laws to protect the woodworking jobs at the expense of American jobs.

And apparently, the Indian woodworker aren't doing their jobs very well, at least when it comes to "uniform commercial quality".

Granted, Gibson has a lot of things going against it in the current political climate ... it has actually publicly supported Republican politicians in a "right to work" state. Heaven forbid.

Now, if Gibson would only move their operations to India, their would be no problem.

That is what this is about!!

Reply to
Swingman

I guess we will all just buy Fender guitars, from now on, where they are more honest and not smugglers.

formatting link
seized wood is described in the affidavit as in the form of "sawn logs" 510-530 x 75/70 x 10mm.

IOW, each of the 1250 pieces seized is roughly 20" x 3" x 13/32".

Read paragraph 14, page six of the affadavit and you will see that India allows export of this particular wood up to 6mm thick (due to the high complexity of involved in cutting these thin sheets to a uniform commercial quality)

IOW, it must be cut to that thickness by Indian workers at Indian factories, insuring Indian jobs.

IOW, the raid on Gibson's facilities, with guns drawn, disrupting the production and jobs of workers at one of the few American companies still "manufacturing" products is based on a difference of 5/32" of thickness, AND TO PROTECT INDIAN WOODWORKING JOBS.

How many of you, experienced woodworkers, could look at bundles of these pieces and tell that there is up to 4mm (5/32") difference in thickness in the pieces?

Do you really think that Gibson should be held accountable, and be subject to a police action, computers seized, production disrupted, jobs lost, by buying rough stock, sight unseen, that is approximately 1/8" thicker than it's supposed to be?

What it boils down to is that US is enforcing India's laws to protect the woodworking jobs at the expense of American jobs.

And apparently, the Indian woodworker aren't doing their jobs very well, at least when it comes to "uniform commercial quality".

Granted, Gibson has a lot of things going against it in the current political climate ... it has actually publicly supported Republican politicians in a "right to work" state. Heaven forbid.

Now, if Gibson would only move their operations to India, their would be no problem.

That is what this is about!!

Reply to
m II

That absolutely sucks.

Most.

Especially when Gibson probably didn't WANT the thicker stock because it would have to be sanded/planed down, anyway.

Uh, oh!

Suckage. It's nasty actions like these, by American bureaucrats, which make the climate for offshoring a whole lot more tenable. Fukkemall.

-- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

Reply to
Larry Jaques

I think the answer depends on their intent. If there was an intent to "defraud", then they should be held accountable. Morality has nothing to do with it (if you believe in law).

Reply to
Bill

Can do document that the agents who conducted this search had guns in their hands? If not, why do you believe something you don't have reasonable grounds to accept as true?

Q: Which is the number one manufacturing nation in the world?

Is the answer:

A) China B) Japan C) The United States of America D) Luxembourg

The way it works is if you want other nations to adhere to treaties on imports and exports and environmental protection and so on you have to demonstrate that you will enforce those laws and agreements too even if it impacts companies in your own nation. The notion that for some reason the Obama administration if obsessed with the idea of protecting jobs in India just as part of their general wickedness is so laughably childish that anyone promoting it ends up looking like a clown. I saw one right-wing blogger claim the Obama administration is actively hostile to any successful business and that's why Gibson was raided--talk about rampaging paranoia. Meanwhile a long list of other companies that make guitars in America and also rely on imported rosewood, ebony etc. haven't been raided. So is that because they adhere to the law and properly document their imports, or is it because (as some folks would have you believe) all those other companies are run by Democratic supporters? Which explanation is more credible (to someone with a reasonable mind)?

Do you think that any company should get a pass on allegedly falsifying import documents about the nature of the products they are bringing in? Keep in mind that the previous raid was about Gibson importing wood from Madagascar that at the time wasn't supposed to be exported from there at all--kind of looks like a pattern, doesn't it.

Sure, the CEO of Gibson giving $3,500 to a couple of Republican candidates would obviously have triggered all of this [rolls eyes].

Absolutely, trying to force American companies to send jobs overseas is clearly what the govt. is trying to do, it's all part of their overall wicked un-Americanism, but that's what happens when you elect a black Muslim from Kenya, right?

Reply to
DGDevin

Be glad to discuss it with you, but WITHOUT the ad hominen bullshit.

Reply to
Swingman

Bullshit. What it boils down to is some prick in Fish and Wildlife protecting HIS turf. Remember, Harry J. Anslinger, Jr. was the first commissioner of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics. He insured his success by "finding" a huge drug problem: criminalizing marijuana after four years on the job.

Reply to
Steve

All you did was say "Bullshit" and change the subject ... you're going to have to do better than that.

Reply to
Swingman

"DGDevin" wrote in news:ZLidndvGjaW8gPzTnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.com:

You finally figured it out...

Larry

Reply to
Larry

So what it really boils down to the Obama regime finding an excuse to use the government, any government, to try and destroy whomever disagrees with your socialist agenda.

Reply to
Jack Stein

Occam's razor. You guys are all over the map with conspiracy theories (which seem to wind up blaming that "Kenyan"). My "conspiracy theory" is a lot simpler; only one layer: some prick who wants a flashy raid to make him look successful.

Anslinger was the object lesson of how this works, not a change of subject.

Reply to
Steve

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