Interested in methods that others are using for working during winters in metal quonsets that don't have permanent insulation. I'm toying with the ideas of building a small, 8 ft high insulated "room" in one corner of the quonset or perhaps erecting a temporary canvas/poly enclosure (think temporary vehicle shelters with piping frame).
Winter here means periods of -40, dry. The quonset is all-metal, corrugated, 40 ft x 60 ft x 20 ft max height with enclosed ends.
Does not answer your question, but I found this interesting.
Heatable space within the unheatable sounds good. I think I'd avoid the temptation to use expanded foam for my igloo, though. Flame can do some nasty things quick. Shiny side in fiberglass in a wood frame with a face of thin sheetrock or tempered board would do. Don't believe I'd worry about wind intrusion, so the back could go au natural until a reason was found for covering. Ceiling should have more than the walls, if you've got the insulation.
Bet you could heat a 20x20 constructed that way for "pennies a day."
On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 02:51:58 GMT, Monroe calmly ranted:
I had my 2-car shop converted to forced air when the HVAC guy came out to install the new heater/cooler. And 8" duct keeps it within 10 degrees of the house with the door closed. I drilled a couple dozen 2" holes through the door and keep a furnace filter over the opening to equalize the pressure (and keep dust out of the house) when the heater kicks in. For finishing, I open the side door to ventilate while the solvent in the finish evaporates, then close up to regain the heat and dry properly.
How about using 1" or 2" expanded foam panels glued to the canvas shell for better/longer heat retension? Or build a knockdown style frame with built-in panels of 1/4" OSB and foamboard? Use it as a spray booth in the summer, shelter in the winter. Consider spraying foam insulation on the inside of the quonset if you're adventurous and deep-pocketed.
That's cold! Our winters in So. OR get down to +20F (so far, but this is only my 3rd winter here.)
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Canvas and poly don't have much of an R-value, I think. I'd probably try to dream up a way to make 4x8'ish panels out of rigid foam panels. Pretty cheap at the BORG.
How much would it be to spray on some foam insulation inside the hut?
-40!!! Move.
On 20 Oct 2004 14:38:35 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Bill Wallace) calmly ranted:
Monroe must be counting on the Global Warming to make it a nice and toasty 72°F next year. ;)
Minburn County, Alberta. Parkland on the west edge of the Canadian prairie (Christ, almost sounds lyrical!). Plenty of wind, and in winter, cold wind. Cold is more of an issue than snow.
The sectional panel idea is sounding better. Knock down is preferred. As to the foam, in the oilpatch where I work foam is not used much because of the safety factor of flammability. I was interested in comments from others who have tried the temporary structure route.
Blown insulation is an expensive idle thought for this cat.
Thanks
Expanded polystyrene foam insulation is modified so as not to burn if the source of ignition is removed. It will just put itself out. It is less flammable that many forms of paneling or other wall coverings. When it burns, the products of combustion are soot, water, and carbon dioxide, same as a wood fire.
Building codes do call for it to have a layer of sheetrock though.
Get the facts. It is safe. Insulation is required to be modified material that will not burn on its own.
I'd guess you wouldn't want to get this elaborate, but what about that spray foam insulation that used to be applied to walls and ceilings? Don't know if it's used anymore. I'v heard that a quonset hut is very efficient to heat if well insulated.
Though I'm sure they've changed it, the stuff I'm familiar with got a lot of its oomph from vermiculite - see the talc/asbestos dissertations referenced above. Not to mention you can _always_ heat a smaller space for less than a larger.
Huh... I'll have to dig a little bit. AFAIK (and that ain't very far) those stryofoam panels, with relfective backing, at the borg aren't flammable.
Correct. They must meet fire codes and they are checked by third party inspection. They may burn if a source of ignition is present, but will stop when it is taken away.
Wow, I didn't know that stuff contained asbestos. About 15 years ago I had to use it on a job in a factory to fill a 25 foot high cinderblock wall. If it contains talc, that would explain the "slippery" quality that resulted in the following phenomenon: We drilled a few 1" holes in the cinderblock lower down on the wall, and the stuff began to leak out of the holes, prodigiously. There was an updraft in the building, so it was actually pouring "up" out of the holes, while we were running around frantically looking for garbage bags to contain it - I think we filled about 10. Sorry to ramble on. For me, it's "Hey-that reminds me of" day, I guess.
Ah, my err. Wrong term/explanation there. Not the issue of flammability of the product, rather the potential for ignition of fugitive volatile emissions (and acute releases) from static discharges associated with the product.
But for my application, these panels then do not contribute to combustion w/o maintenance of a soure of ignition? This sounds reasonable for use as insulation for paneling in a knock-down system. Time to check out local building codes for even a temporary structure.
Thanks
Huh? Never heard of a problem with static discharge.
combustible when directly exposed to fire of sufficient intensity and heat. Therefore, neither
should be stored nor installed near open flame or ignition sources.
The modified grades of expandable polystyrene contain flame-retardants designed to
decrease flammability due to accidental ignition from a small flame source. The expanded
polystyrene manufactured from these products have been tested in numerous small scale
fire tests and meet the requirements of the nation's building codes and applicable industrial,
federal, and state requirements.
THE RESULTS OF THESE TESTS ARE NOT INTENDED TO REFLECT HAZARDS
UNDER ACTUAL FIRE CONDITIONS.
Flammability Characteristics
Recommended Maximum Use Temperature: 165ºF (75ºC)
Melting Point: As a thermoplastic, polystyrene does not exhibit a true melting point. It will
begin to soften at about 212ºF (100ºC) and, as more heat is applied, melting occurs.
Flash Ignition Temperature*: The lowest initial
temperature of air passing around a molded sample
of EPS at which a sufficient amount of combustible gas
is evolved to be ignited (ASTM D 1929). 698ºF (370ºC)
Self Ignition Temperature*: The lowest initial temperature of
air passing around the specimen at which, in the absence
of an ignition source, the self-heating properties of the EPS lead
to ignition or ignition occurs of itself. (ASTM D1929) 752ºF (400ºC)
Potential Heat of Building Materials ** A property-type
measurement of the heat that could be potentially released 17,293 BTU
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