Quick Electrial Question

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On Sun, 04 Sep 2011 20:56:44 -0400, Doug Miller
<snip>

Would an inspector consider a wall switch to be "in sight" when you have you head inside the cupboard working on the disposal and the switch is above the counter?
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Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
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On 9/5/2011 7:07 AM, Nova wrote:

I'd say yes, since that's the way MOST of them are wired.
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Steve Barker
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"Steve Barker" wrote in message wrote:

I'd say yes, since that's the way MOST of them are wired.
=============== It is not hidden.
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Eric


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On 9/3/11 11:47 PM, Doug Miller wrote:

A lot of things aren't code approved that would work perfectly fine.
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-MIKE-

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-MIKE- wrote:

That's the standard that some contractors I've hired use. What's sad is that their prices are higher than what perfect fine should really get (IMO). When I hire something done by a professional, I don't expect it to be done perfectly fine unless I'm offered a choice.
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On 9/4/11 12:42 AM, Bill wrote:

Great. Completely out of context, but I agree.
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-MIKE-

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On 9/4/2011 10:09 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

Some solutions are considered "perfect enough" ... an oxymoron if ever there was. :)
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On 9/4/2011 12:35 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

That doesn't mean you should do them -- or advise others to.
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On 9/4/11 12:19 PM, Doug Miller wrote:

It's a disposal that runs for a few seconds a few times a day. It doesn't mean they should be scared out of doing an otherwise safe installation simply because the nec found a reason to advise against it.
An example. Wall plugs are now installed "upside-down" apparently because of a new fear that a metal object could fall behind the plug which isn't fully plugged in and short the hot/neutral. This doesn't all of a sudden render all the plugs in my house unsafe, simple because there are still people in the world who can't seem to plug in their stuff all the way.
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-MIKE-

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On 9/4/2011 2:11 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

Perhaps you'd care to discuss the tests you've conducted, and your qualifications for evaluating the results, that enable you to describe with such certainty as a "safe installation" something that the NFPA has decided is *not* safe.
In any event, it's a silly thing to do. Installing a duplex receptacle is easier, *and* complies with the Code.
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On 9/4/11 2:21 PM, Doug Miller wrote:

Many of my electrical engineer friends, including my good friend and neighbor who's worked for AEP for 20 years, will admit and lament that quite a few nec requirements are overkill and based more on fear... and fear of lawsuits... than actual safety and good sense. Theirs is the experience qualifications by which I expressed my opinion and advice for this one, limited and specific situation.
There are many safety techniques prescribed by osha that many an experienced and skilled woodworker simply ignore because they are pretty silly and only in place to keep Darwinism in check. :-)

Installing a receptacle was my advice.
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-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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On 9/4/2011 3:24 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

Just the same, I don't imagine that they knowingly advise anyone to violate the NEC.

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Mikey posted it first!
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
On 9/4/2011 3:24 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

Just the same, I don't imagine that they knowingly advise anyone to violate the NEC.

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Some devices were designed to sit on the outlet and rely on gravity to push them against the wall. The outlet expander/surge protector is an example of this. With the device plugged in upside down, they're pulled away from the wall, which creates the situation the upside down outlets are trying to avoid.
I do enjoy a little irony now and then. ;-)
Puckdropper
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Ground pin is always the longest. Your point cannot likely happen.
-------------------- "Puckdropper" wrote in message
Some devices were designed to sit on the outlet and rely on gravity to push them against the wall. The outlet expander/surge protector is an example of this. With the device plugged in upside down, they're pulled away from the wall, which creates the situation the upside down outlets are trying to avoid.
I do enjoy a little irony now and then. ;-)
Puckdropper
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The upside down outlet and certain devices actually create a greater hazard because they were designed to go the other way. I once found a polarized wall wart (I think it was a battery charger) that could pull away from an outlet due to gravity. The outlet expander that sits on one outlet, and covers the other has a tendency to pull loose if installed upside down. (Various solutions have been tried: Adding a plastic ground pin, screwing the device to the outlet.)
So, the point is that it's ironic that a method presumed to increase safety of an unlikely situation actually creates the conditions for the unlikely situation to occur.
Puckdropper
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Yes, that makes more sense now. I got a bad poke from a measuring tape behind a freezer once. I never measure blind anymore.
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Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> writes:

Upside down is completely relative, with respect to standard duplex receptacles. I've seen as many houses with them ground up, as ground down, over 50 years. My current circa 1970 home has ground up, for example. The electricians at work also install them ground up in the computer rooms. I prefer ground up.
scott
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Ground up makes much more sense except for habit expectations and the pins are harder to line up due to lack of visibility.
"I can change. You can change. We all can change"
--------------- "Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
Upside down is completely relative, with respect to standard duplex receptacles. I've seen as many houses with them ground up, as ground down, over 50 years. My current circa 1970 home has ground up, for example. The electricians at work also install them ground up in the computer rooms. I prefer ground up.
scott
----------------- Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> writes:

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On 9/4/2011 1:11 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

it's such a far fetched off the wall possibility, it's bullshit. NO (repeat NO) outlet in my control will ever be ground up. it's just wrong. And no, I don't have those asshole antisiphon garden hose outlets either. too much restriction. I can fill a 5 gallon bucket in less than 40 seconds with the 110 psi i have on my hose spigots, and i intend to keep it that way.
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Steve Barker
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