Quick Electrial Question

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On 9/6/2011 5:51 AM, Doug Miller wrote:

And it was further explained to me by the local AHJ that if the outlet was a SINGLE outlet (and they are available) for the sump only, (NOT A DUPLEX OUTLET) that it would not have to be a gfci.
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Steve Barker
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On 9/8/2011 2:03 AM, Steve Barker wrote:

That's not what the NEC says.
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On 9/8/2011 7:26 AM, Doug Miller wrote:

Well, either way, i wasn't about to seek out the "single" outlet, so i installed the gfci, had the inspector do his re-check, then removed it and put in a standard outlet. I will NOT run a gfci on a sump pump period.
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Steve Barker
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"Steve Barker" wrote in message
On 9/8/2011 7:26 AM, Doug Miller wrote:

Well, either way, i wasn't about to seek out the "single" outlet, so i installed the gfci, had the inspector do his re-check, then removed it and put in a standard outlet. I will NOT run a gfci on a sump pump period.
================Nothing like a "secret off switch" on a sump pump to flood your basement. Too bad these things don't come with audible alerts or otherwise remote indicators!
--
Eric


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Stuart wrote:

For the same reason putting a refrigerator on a GFCI circuit is discouraged.
I think it has something to do with voodoo.
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snipped-for-privacy@NOSPAMgmail.com says...

That would trip a circuit breaker. If there's a ground fault at startup something's wrong.
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wrote:

Due to the inductance of the windings of larger motors there is a slight delay in the current flow between the hot and neutral leads. This delay can cause a false trip of a GFCI.
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Jack Novak
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On 9/4/2011 10:04 AM, Nova wrote:

In the early days of GFCI, even nearby electrical storms were responsible for nuisance GFCI trips.
The advent of "hospital grade" GFCI devices advanced the quality of the devices to where that is no longer the problem it once was, although it still happens and is always something to consider.
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I have my whole shop on GFI, I don't trip any on startup. GFI is specifically for ground fault. So if you are tripping them, either the gfi is bad or you have a problem with your end equipement / or wiring of the equipment.
On 9/4/2011 11:04 AM, Nova wrote:

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On Sun, 04 Sep 2011 11:14:52 -0400, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote:

Ok, one more question. What if it's just a two pronged plug (no ground plug) as is the case with that fan in the bathroom that I mentioned? Could a two pronged plug produce false GFI trips?
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Apologies, should have thought about it a little more before asking. Most device plugs, if not all in bathroom are two pronged and they are what a bathroom GFI would protect against in the case of a water born circuit.
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On 9/4/2011 11:35 AM, Dave wrote:

Absolutely. A GFCI does not need a ground conductor at all in order to trip. They work by sensing *only* an imbalance in the supply and return currents (in the black and white wires, respectively). *Anything* that causes those currents to differ by more than 20mA will trip a GFCI, regardless of the presence or absence of an equipment grounding conductor either in the appliance cord or the premises wiring.
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I've seen that figure quoted twice; it depends on the rating of the device.
The one on the incomer to our house, previously mentioned, is rated at 30mA. The one I use on my electronics workbench for equipment I am working on is rated at 10mA
--
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No, the neutral is still the ground.
BTW if you attach a meter to the hot and neutral you'll get voltage. Attach the hot and ground and you'll get voltage.
My house was wired so that neutral and ground are one and the same... My second box was not allowed by code to do that. It had to have neutral and ground seperated... No idea why, but that's code.
On 9/4/2011 11:35 AM, Dave wrote:

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On 9/4/2011 12:55 PM, tiredofspam wrote:

Nonsense. Neutral and ground are two different things. A circuit using only two wires has *no* ground.

No, it was not. It was wired without a ground.

For safety.
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Neutral and ground are the same thing at only one point in your house. A second box in the same building with neutral connected to ground would violate that safety rule.
Neutral carries current during load. Ground should never carry anything in your house. Two ground points can cause the ground wire to share load and cause many different problems. Simple example: You don't want current flowing through your tub frame to the taps when you are standing in it.
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No, the neutral is still the ground.
BTW if you attach a meter to the hot and neutral you'll get voltage. Attach the hot and ground and you'll get voltage.
My house was wired so that neutral and ground are one and the same... My second box was not allowed by code to do that. It had to have neutral and ground seperated... No idea why, but that's code.
On 9/4/2011 11:35 AM, Dave wrote:

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they want the ground to be a (separate) safety backup for the circuit.
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On 9/4/2011 10:35 AM, Dave wrote:

yes, no ground is required for a gfci to function.
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On 9/4/2011 10:14 AM, tiredofspam wrote:

your gf"C" i is probably bad.
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On 9/4/11 7:55 AM, HeyBub wrote:

I don't know where this is going, but I'm assuming GFCI outlets are rated for different current loads and applications, just like standard outlets.
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