Question fow wood shop teachers

You just don't know the right class of plumbers. :)

I attended a grandson's graduation ceremony last June, held at Liberty University. The woman in front of me, and her daughter (maybe 15) appeared to be a nearly matched pair, except that Mama had a large butterfly tattoed just above one cheek, and the youngster had a Maltese cross (Gothic, today, I guess) in a similar spot. Both were up and down a lot, so their waistlines and thong tops were visible often, if not constantly.

Almost enough to make me wish I were young again--at least young enough to remember Mama!

Charlie Self "Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to." Mark Twain

Reply to
Charlie Self
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This is kind of interesting. I'm not a teacher, and have been driving a truck for most of the years since I majored in foreign languages, but I've always had it in the back of my mind that one day I might decide to go back to school for a bit and get trained up to teach high school. (The politics of it have kept me away. I don't know any happy teachers in these parts. Plus I was originally on a PhD track, and didn't take any teacher training, so I'm not certified.)

Unsurprisingly, I have always thought in terms of teaching language classes. Then just a bit ago a friend of mine told me the local school system is desperate for a shop teacher, and I should put in for it. It's an intriguing notion. I could probably just about get the job based on this friend's recommendation, but I'm not at all sure I have the right stuff to do the job.

I'm self-taught. I've never had a class from any store or school. Could I teach shop? What do they even teach in shop class? I'm reading this thread with keen interest.

(Although, everything else aside, I probably can't afford to take the pay cut anyway. Entry level teachers don't make Jack. Sad, isn't it?)

Reply to
Silvan

I have no idea what entry level teacher get, but with some time in and the right degrees, 50k to 60k is about normal. I know of one pulling 64k this year. This is in CT where the cost of living factors in.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

Edwin Pawlowski responds:

Starting pay in Silvan's area is probably in the high 20s. He can look forward to something around 45 to 50 as a high, after nearly 30 years, and a 30 year retirement for most systems. There are always coaching chores and similar extra duties--drama teacher?--that add some extra bucks to the paycheck.

I don't know what he makes as a truck driver, but even over-the-road guys have to really stretch themselves to last 30+ years, and top pay seems to be about

40+ cents per mile (how many miles did you drive today Daddy? No thanks. Those things look like about as much fun to push 500+ miles per day as a vat of wet cement). No idea what the trucker's benefits are, either.

Charlie Self "Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to." Mark Twain

Reply to
Charlie Self

I think my high school shop teacher had one goal. Blood splatter reduction. I do not recall any instruction at all in 2 years of wood shop.

My college >Glen wrote:

Reply to
Jim Behning

Entry is 28-32k in most of CT, maybe more in some really rich communities, less at parochial schools.

Barry

Reply to
Ba r r y

Free access to a fully equipped shop can add serious extra bucks to a check.

He can purchase some good personal hand tools, and do his machining after school.

Barry

Reply to
Ba r r y

Entry level? My mom teaches in OK, and when I graduated from college, I started out as an engineer making more than her _30 year_ salary, which means she was making less than 45K.

Entry level there is about 24K, and gas station attendants make about that much starting out. And that is indeed sad.

I would be a teacher if it wasn't for that nonsense.

Reply to
Mike H.

Ew. Not great for the area, when they're getting very close to that here, where taxes and living expenses are much lower.

Age is catching up to me. I once was engaged to a girl teaching school in the Croton-Harmon school district in Westchester County, NY. IIRC, she started at about $100 or $110 a week, say $5400 a year. She was originally from CT, and I think moved back there.

NY had then, and may still, all sorts of adjustments for education to add to the salary.

Charlie Self "Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to." Mark Twain

Reply to
Charlie Self

I'm honestly not sure how the school's insurance company would react to such use.

Charlie Self "Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to." Mark Twain

Reply to
Charlie Self

My High School teacher was into blood splatter reduction, unless he was the one splattering our blood! He ruled with an iron fist and a two by four and if you didn't comply with the letter of HIS LAW you could find yourself sitting at a drafting table trying to make a satisfactory rendering of a nut or a bolt. Really, I can't remember him ever having to resort to anything more than threats and drafting to keep us under control. There was one time he took a kid out to the loading dock for a little "man to Man" but neither of them spoke of it, ever. That kid stayed with him for four years of class and wound up being a fine cabinet maker. He was a dinosaur in the education world in 1980 and one of the best guys I ever had the pleasure of BS'ing with. He truly believed that everyone deserved a shot at the good life and he was going to equip them for the task even if it killed them.

If your Principal will stand behind your enforcement of the basic rules of survival in a shop class I say go for it. "Cool" kids won't come around if you make them wear an apron and silly glasses the entire time they are on the shop floor.

J.

Reply to
jeepnstein

Every shop teacher I've ever met used the shop for personal projects. The same goes for teachers using weight rooms, pools, ice, athletic fields, kilns, music rooms, etc... I skate and shoot pucks on a regular basis on a high school rink with a neighbor.

I'm talking about working alone, not bringing hired help in. Lots of teachers are in school long after school ends, for various reasons.

Barry

Reply to
Ba r r y

Addressed in my "Modest Proposals for Good Government":

No politician can be paid more than a school teacher. No lawyer can hold public office. Violation of public trust is a capital offense.

Reply to
Swingman

Swingman responds:

Add to that my corollary: Any politician elected to office must serve a minimum of two years in prison before taking the oath of office.

Charlie Self "Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to." Mark Twain

Reply to
Charlie Self

Apparently, you have not had a leaky faucet in SF. That is most definately a good reason to learn to do your own plumbing.

Reply to
FMB

LOL ... Actually, I think that was my Dad's philosophy on raising kids. I remember getting a whipping _before_ we got somewhere, as an example of what it would be like if I misbehaved.

Reply to
Swingman

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 01:01:51 GMT, "FMB" calmly ranted:

Plumbers in training? I opt for the Eurochick, fer sher.

formatting link

Reply to
Larry Jaques

As a retired "shop" teacher from Texas who was turned into a computer teacher 'cause these students are all going to college' then a "tech" teacher which is shop without the tools-- computer based, some of you younger folks might even have taken my class or one like it... but I digress , I feel compelled to jump in. BTW - I taught Middle school Industrial technology-- so all of my comments are directed from that level VERRRRRy beginning Teach safety, safety, safety, safety, safety, safety, safety, safety- Make 'em pass a general safety test to do any kind of work with hand tools-- (enforce your safety rules-- If kids are unsafe, they should be sent to the office- or given whatever safety related punishment/reinstruction (can I say punishment anymore these days?) that will reinforce the rule that was broken.

I cannot stress enough that chronically unsafe children should not be in the shop setting.!!!!! Before I would take on even a part time situation like that I would have to come to some agreement with administration on that factor alone. Most partents who have children in a shop classroom expect you as a teacher, to look out for their kids. I once told an administrator (and also the parent of a troubled youth- consistant -safety violator) that "neither I nor they could afford to have this student in a sharp tool enviornment-- the lawyers will eat us up"-- BTW- the student was removed to another, safer elective. I used to give a class on each power tool- along with the associated safety rules & safety demonstration-and application demonstration- then students had to pass a safety test on that tool before being allowed to use it --Then they had to ask permission to use the tool & tell me what they were going to use it for ( a chart, a listing of the names of students who had passed each test could be posted (now a days, the chart would most likely have to be your eyes only as not to embarass someone & spark a lawsuit)was handy, so I could see which kid had actually passed the test. Also, each student had to give me a practical demonstration of the tool (also could be added to the chart). No student was allowed to use the table saw-- Most were way too short & didn't have the reach-- Only a few could use the band saw (tough test). Most could use the jig saws , lathes, drill presses, stationary sanders, and the jointer with my supervision only. Most could use the surface planer-- but I had to inspect each glued up section for glue -- I made them scrape it ALL off-- sharpening the 'ol Powermatic was a real pain. Power sanders -- vibrating- Rockewll- could only be used if the area they were sanding was lager than the sanding pad of the sander, Otherwise, they scraped & sanded if necessary. If you are going to teach design, the kids almost have to be in the class for a year. Typically, the kids I had were in my class for a semester-- some only six weeks. If you find yourself in that position-- semester first: Safety many times-- Safety poster contest-- video is great interdisciplinary coursework-- prize? up to you & the administration. If the class is quick, you might be able to do a little design, drafting & execution of projects.

9 weeks class-- almost impossible to teach design-- hard enough in 18 weeks-- best to have a number of demostration projects with available plans after you do all the safety education & tool demonstrations 6 weeks-- hand tools only for a very limited selection of projects-- almost kits (you make the kits) The less time you have with the kids, the more materials prep you will have to do. That will take up your conference period and some after school hours. Disclaimer: I'm not really advocating that kids be run through a program tht only allows a set amount of sterile projects to be made-- Kids should have the ability to design, draw and implement anything their hearts desire. The time I had with an individual child dwindled from over two years (1976) as a two year possible elective-- to a semester (1999)-- then the six graders started rotating every six weeks----Remember one thing-- The kids will make what they see you make, so show them quality stuff if possible---- sorry group-- got carried away Phil
Reply to
robinphil2000

Or less. My wife's cousin got out of school the same time I did, give or take a couple of years. She's making 60 now, but she's moved all over the state to get there. She's up in NoVA somewhere now teaching "special" (ie especially homicidal) students.

Top pay is 60 cents a mile for the union guys, or it used to be. The company that used to advertise that folded a few years ago. Regular non-union OTR guys do hover around 40 as the top, and maybe 3,000 miles a week, I guess. I'm not part of that whole scene.

I earn in the low 30s, exact figure not for worldwide archival. I haven't had a raise since 1999. It doesn't go as far as it used to, and my takehome has dwindled by over $100 a week in that time due to inflating insurance costs. They used to pay 100% of my insurance, but then they decided to cap what they would pay at whatever they were paying last year (the year before making this change), and I've had to eat the difference every year since. They also used to just pay people anyway (salary) when they got hurt, but one asshole abused that, so they started making us carry disability insurance, and turning us over to that if we get hurt and have to sit out. (Although I have never actually had to use it.) They used to pay for our meals too, until some asshole started eating at Red Lobster three times a day.

I get my annual pay cut the first of December, right in time for Christmas. I like the job, relatively speaking, but I don't know how much longer I can continue to take an effective 7% pay cut every year. I have seen what happens to those who ask for raises though, so there's no point in going there. I still make more than people at Wal-Mart. Barely. I could always go somewhere else.

I don't really want to though. It either involves more time on the road, or more hours a week working, or both. I sometimes only work 35 hours a week, and almost never more than 50, and the pay is the same week after week. If I took a local job with one of the big name freight humper outfits I'd have to pull 70 week after week, go back to punching a timeclock. If I went with a more conventional outfit, I'd have to put in the miles to earn the money, and slow times would come right out of my paycheck. I hate working. I like leisure. What I have now is a good compromise. Work my ass off as fast and efficiently as I can, and I earn more time at the house. I am VERY efficient. Who knew laziness could be such a good motivator? :)

I'm getting really tired of it all around though. The new hours of service rules are a serious pain in the ass. I lose money every year. Most of all, I got lucky the first few years, and had easy winters. The winters lately have not been so easy. Even running exclusively in the south for the last couple of years, I've still found myself descending into hell more times than I care to dwell on.

I HATE WINTER! Driving one of these damn things in bad weather is sheer insanity. It used to be my biggest concern was whether I could get across town to work. Now that's just the beginning of the ordeal. Winter is the primary reason why I want to quit doing this shit. Get out before I use up all my luck. Winter scares the bajeezus out of me. It didn't used to. I've survived some scary shit, and I have a lot of T-shirts. Too many T-shirts. I would give my left nut to go back to driving something that only has four wheels, is only 6" off the ground, and doesn't bend in the middle.

Problem is I can't figure out how to replace the income, and I sure can't afford to take a massive pay cut, so I'm really stuck between a rock and a hard place here. About all I could do is take two full-time jobs, and then be assured of pulling 16 hours EVERY day.

This shop teacher thing is worth a look, but I probably can't afford to take the pay cut.

Most people driving for real companies have excellent benefits. Medical, dental, vision care, the whole nine yards. Mine have gotten worse year after year. I only have medical. If I want to cover the family on my insurance, it's $150 a week, so my wife has to cover herself and the kids. She has some of the worst medical insurance in the country too, working for Wal-Mart. Both her insurance and mine are jacking up the premiums every year, and jacking up the deductible too. $200, $500, $750, $1000, $1000 per person. Eventually it will be pointless to have medical insurance at all. It just about already is. By the time we meet the deductible, it's time for it to roll over.

Reply to
Silvan

If you don't get hurt, you don't have to tell them about it. :)

There might not be that much temptation anyway. I haven't seen the shops in the newest schools, but I have a friend with the keys to everything in the county, and I've poked around in many of the wood shops at various points, for various reasons.

It's stuff Keith would drool over at first glance, and then it would make him cry to see the sad shape it's in.

Reply to
Silvan

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