Question for Leigh D4 users

I finally got around to opening the box on the D4 that I bought during the Feb Woodcraft sale.
I have been having a hell of a time with chip-out and break-out when doing through dovetails. I am an admitted novice at this but I dialed in the fit pretty quickly. A little more practice and I'm good to go on that score. But so far this is a real good way to turn hardwood into firewood.
I watched (over and over) the video and the demo guy just zips through without effort. I get terrible chatter when the DT bit is making a full cut. I've overcome this to a degree by making a roughing pass with a 1/4" straight bit, but needless to say this is a PITA and another chance for error. BTW, I'm using the two-flute bit supplied with the jig and a DW625.
Contrast this to some half-blind DT I cut without incident using a, believe it or not, Craftsman single-flute bit that I think I bought at a garage sale.
Any helpful suggestions will be appreciated.
Wes
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wrote:

Something's definitely wrong somewhere. I've *never* had a chatter problem with my D4, using a Bosch 1617EVS router and the Leigh bits. I'm not quite as fast as the guy in the demo :-) but I've found it to go pretty quickly and easily, once I have the fit dialed in right.

a) Are the boards straight and flat? b) Are they clamped down tightly? c) How thick are the boards? (Thin stock is more apt to vibrate) d) Is the jig clamped firmly to your workbench? e) Are the guide fingers of the jig resting securely on the wood? f) Is the bit secured firmly in the collet? g) Have you checked the bit for chipped flutes? h) Have you checked the bit for run-out? (Does it wobble?) i) How about the router collet? Does it wobble? j) Did you use the Craftsman bit successfully in the same router, or a different one? If a different one, have you tried the Leigh bit in that router, or the Craftsman bit in the DW? k) What kind of wood are you working with? l) Are you forcing the router into the wood? Light pressure and a little patience will work better than trying to hog everything out in three seconds.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 14:34:25 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:
One of the quickest relies in Usenet history.
|>I finally got around to opening the box on the D4 that I bought during |>the Feb Woodcraft sale.|> |>I have been having a hell of a time with chip-out and break-out when |>doing through dovetails. I am an admitted novice at this but I dialed |>in the fit pretty quickly. A little more practice and I'm good to go |>on that score. But so far this is a real good way to turn hardwood |>into firewood.|> |>I watched (over and over) the video and the demo guy just zips through |>without effort. I get terrible chatter when the DT bit is making a |>full cut. I've overcome this to a degree by making a roughing pass |>with a 1/4" straight bit, but needless to say this is a PITA and |>another chance for error. BTW, I'm using the two-flute bit supplied |>with the jig and a DW625.| |Something's definitely wrong somewhere. I've *never* had a chatter problem |with my D4, using a Bosch 1617EVS router and the Leigh bits. I'm not quite as |fast as the guy in the demo :-) but I've found it to go pretty quickly and |easily, once I have the fit dialed in right.
Good to know.
| |a) Are the boards straight and flat?
Absolutely. Freshly jointed, planed and squared.
|b) Are they clamped down tightly?
Yes
|c) How thick are the boards? (Thin stock is more apt to vibrate)
Mostly 3/4" samples just like the instructional material recommends.
|d) Is the jig clamped firmly to your workbench?
Yes.
|e) Are the guide fingers of the jig resting securely on the wood?
Yes
|f) Is the bit secured firmly in the collet?
Yes.
|g) Have you checked the bit for chipped flutes?
Yes.
|h) Have you checked the bit for run-out? (Does it wobble?)
I'll take a closer look at this. I have noted some galling on the shanks of both the DT and straight Leigh bits, however. I never see this happening on the many Whiteside bits I use in the same machine.
|i) How about the router collet? Does it wobble?
No.
|j) Did you use the Craftsman bit successfully in the same router, or a |different one? If a different one, have you tried the Leigh bit in that |router, or the Craftsman bit in the DW?
Same router. The shank on this bit is pretty short and I did have one episode where the depth changed because the bit withdrew from the collet until I really cinched it down.
|k) What kind of wood are you working with?
Mostly poplar for experiments. But I successfully did HB in a cherry drawer front with 1/2" maple sides. The TD at the other end of the drawer were a disaster. I think I'll do a rabbet joint there and get this project done for now. [g]
|l) Are you forcing the router into the wood? Light pressure and a little |patience will work better than trying to hog everything out in three seconds.
No, not forcing it.
I need some other size DT bits, so I'll order up some Whiteside bits and eliminate that variable. Thanks for the tips.
Wes
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wrote:

:-) [snip list of possible causes eliminated]

You might have a bad bit.
[snip]

collet. That could cause the bit to flex sideways a little and thus wobble.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter, send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
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"Wes Stewart" wrote in message

Try another dovetail bit with the jig? ... sounds as if the one you're using is defective. Also, there are some fairly specific bit requirements/suggestions for different wood thicknesses, may want to check that you are within those guidelines.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/13/04
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| |"Wes Stewart" wrote in message | |> BTW, I'm using the two-flute bit supplied |> with the jig and a DW625.| |Try another dovetail bit with the jig? ... sounds as if the one you're using |is defective. Also, there are some fairly specific bit |requirements/suggestions for different wood thicknesses, may want to check |that you are within those guidelines.
Thanks. Yes I'll acquire another bit. As to the guidelines, I was just working my way through the instruction manual/video per instructions.
Wes
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Wes Stewart wrote:

Wes...
I'm not a Leigh user; but (assuming that the jig was firmly secured to a solid support and that the work was solidly clamped in the jig) this sounds more like a general routing problem than something specific to your jig.
My first inclination would be to suspect the dovetail bit with which you're experiencing the chatter. Since you're going to eventually replace this bit anyway, why not get the replacement now and do a quick comparison?
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
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wrote:
|Wes Stewart wrote: | |> I get terrible chatter when the DT bit is making a full cut. |> I've overcome this to a degree by making a roughing pass with |> a 1/4" straight bit, but needless to say this is a PITA and |> another chance for error. BTW, I'm using the two-flute bit |> supplied with the jig and a DW625. |> |> Contrast this to some half-blind DT I cut without incident |> using a, believe it or not, Craftsman single-flute bit| |Wes... | |I'm not a Leigh user; but (assuming that the jig was firmly |secured to a solid support and that the work was solidly clamped |in the jig) this sounds more like a general routing problem than |something specific to your jig.
I think so. | |My first inclination would be to suspect the dovetail bit with |which you're experiencing the chatter. Since you're going to |eventually replace this bit anyway, why not get the replacement |now and do a quick comparison?
In process.
Thanks,
Wes
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Wes, read the manual again carefully and pay particular attention to the direction that the bit is moving and on which side of the guide finger the bit is on when it exits on the back side of the board. Try to remember the direction that the bit is spinning and what side of the exit on the back side of the cut will produce the least abound of tear out. The manual shows the direction of movement but does not STRESS the importance to prevent tear out quite loudly enough.
You should make your first shallow "LITE" pass on the front side of the board just far enough to establish the bottom of the cut going from the Right guide to LEFT guide. Pull the router bit back away from the wood and make another slightly heavier cut from right to left again. Continue this until you are about half way through the board. Then from the left side of the guide finger slowly route and exit on the back side of the board and make a "Lite" pass from Left to Right on the back side of the board. Like on the front side, back the bit away from the wood and move the router back to the left back side and make a slightly heavier cut going from left to right. Continue in this manner until the area is completely cleaned out.
Also consider using a sacrificial board 1/4" plywood on the back side to help support the wood where the bit exits on the back side.

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On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 15:32:31 GMT, "Leon"
|Wes, read the manual again carefully and pay particular attention to the |direction that the bit is moving and on which side of the guide finger the |bit is on when it exits on the back side of the board. Try to remember the |direction that the bit is spinning and what side of the exit on the back |side of the cut will produce the least abound of tear out. The manual shows |the direction of movement but does not STRESS the importance to prevent tear |out quite loudly enough. | | |You should make your first shallow "LITE" pass on the front side of the |board just far enough to establish the bottom of the cut going from the |Right guide to LEFT guide. Pull the router bit back away from the wood and |make another slightly heavier cut from right to left again. Continue this |until you are about half way through the board. Then from the left side of |the guide finger slowly route and exit on the back side of the board and |make a "Lite" pass from Left to Right on the back side of the board. Like |on the front side, back the bit away from the wood and move the router back |to the left back side and make a slightly heavier cut going from left to |right. Continue in this manner until the area is completely cleaned out. | |Also consider using a sacrificial board 1/4" plywood on the back side to |help support the wood where the bit exits on the back side.
Thanks, Leon.
All of your suggestions work but the major problem is when routing the tail board and the pin sockets are the same width as the bit. IOW, I can't climb cut and there is no option other than to plunge straight through.
As I said elsewhere, I'm going to replace the bit first then try other remedial options later. I will take your advice on the backer board however.
Wes
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I'll bet the bit, too, but just to check, you _are_ running at top speed?
I've found I can move in so slowly that the bit cuts cleanly, even after quite a few pieces, without need for a backer.
Where I had the problem was with the straight bit. Fixed that by going to a spiral.
wrote:

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Wes, I like to use the 8mm shank bits with an adapter in the 1/2" router collet. There is a lot less vibration. I've been using the Woodcraft brand bits with good success.
Rich
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Wes, I got you beat. It took me 3 years before it came out of the box but once it did things went pretty well. I did the sample box then proceeded to produce 6 drawers for a desk with TDT on all 4 corners. I was using 1/2 " poplar and used the climbing method to avoid chip out as mentioned in the "Tips and Tricks" portion of the video. I had a little chip out but that was due to me trying to work too fast. They also suggest backer board to help prevent chip-out. I don't know if it makes a difference or not but I purchased the 8mm bits at the time which would make them less flexible than the 1/4" and might help in the vibration. Good luck.
ED

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