Question about Hand Saws

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There's your typical North American hand saw such as a Disston that usually cuts on the push stroke and there's your typical Japanese saw that cuts on the pull stroke.
The Japanese saws (all that I can find) seem to be smaller fine toothed saws I'd typically use for some type of fine cutting.
I'm looking for a full sized Disston type saw that cuts on the pull stroke like the Japanese models. Anybody know of any? Why can't I seem to find one to buy?
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I think you can find such a thing at Lowe's and Home Depot. I have a Stanley tool box saw that cuts on both strokes. I never use it, but then I don't like pull stroke saws.
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Lowell Holmes wrote:

Don't see the original post, but the OP might want to look at http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/default.php/cPath/37_308 . They have a variety of timber saws that are either bidirectional or cut on the pull stroke, some made in Germany and some in Japan. All theirs are crosscut. The prices seem reasonable for what they are selling. He might also want to look at their Japanese saw section--they have a heavy carpentry "Z" brand saw that might be a good choice (note that in tests the "Z" brand has sometimes outperformed very high priced hand-made saws).
http://www.fine-tools.com/kobiki.htm has more information including the Japanese nomenclature for larger saws. They have both rip and crosscut variants and a couple of models, and will ship to the US, but their prices even before shipping are much higher than Traditional Woodworker.
http://nokogiri.com/ has several fairly substantial Japanese saws for very reasonable prices.
Beyond that, googling "japanese timber saw", "kobiki nokogiri", "maebiki nokogiri", and "temagori nokogiri" will yield some sources and a lot more information, including photos and descriptions of the use of some Japanese antiques of the sort that are no longer being made.
I suspect that a Japanese today who would in prior years have used a kobiki nokogiri just fires up the chain saw.
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Stanley
I'll have to visit a Lowe's, but there aren't any at the HD that I visit. Of course, that doesn't say much since stock seems to vary between stores from what I've seen.
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wrote in message

See if there isn't a Sandvik saw that has the bi-directional teeth. I think I had one, but I don't know where it walked off to.
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Lowell Holmes wrote:

If he wants something that can be bought locally, Sears stores stock the 12" Shark Saw General Carpentry Saw (Sears item 00936581000) for under 20 bucks. If that's not big enough he can find a 15" and an 18" from the same company--Sears doesn't stock them though--googling 10-2315 and 10-2318 will find a wealth of suppliers for those--Amazon lists both for aroune 20 bucks and shipping.
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Wrong style. I'm looking for a full sized (22"+ blade, style below) European type saw that cuts on the pull stroke. Similar as below, same type of handle, similar blade, only teeth cut on the pull stroke.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&pF886&cat=1,42884
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Wrong style. I'm looking for a full sized (22"+ blade, style below) European type saw that cuts on the pull stroke. Similar as below, same type of handle, similar blade, only teeth cut on the pull stroke.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&pF886&cat=1,42884
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Upscale wrote:

Two ideas:
1. Direct your questions to Lee Valley. Maybe if they don't stock it they will know who does.
2. Take a regular "push" saw, remove the handle, and attach a handle at the opposite end.
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Option #7:
Make another longer handle that, also, fits over the top edge of your present push saw. Mount it on the narrow end of the blade, then you can saw from either end. LOL
Sonny
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"Upscale" wrote

Brands may vary, but prices are almost a match between the two. But, and this is notable, and obvious after much research, ...
.... the best looking women shop at Lowe's.
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Angela likes shopping at Lowe's in Port Huron MI. By golly, I think you may be onto something! . . . .
I can haz another piece of cake now?
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wrote:

Seems a bit odd to have a large pull-cut saw. I have three Japanese pull-cut saws that work very well on smaller, tighter areas. On a larger saw, the blade will have the tendency to be pulled out of the handle. Certainly, a different set of arm muscles to work.
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On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 11:12:36 -0400, Phisherman wrote:

I have one of the good-sized two edged ones (ryoba?). It works well, except, as you say, the blade occasionally pulls out of the handle. I keep meaning to epoxy it in, but it hasn't been that bad yet :-).
But does it have a 24-36 inch blade? No. I'd guess it at 14-15 inches.
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usually
cuts on

toothed saws

stroke
find one

These 'Timberman' saws are available from The Japan Woodworker:
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&dept_id 090
Len
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You can't seem to find one to buy because you wouldn't like it after you bought it. It wouldn't work very well.
You need downward pressure on the teeth to get them to cut. With a normal Disston-type handsaw, having the handle well above the line of the teeth gives you quite a bit of downward pressure - on the push stroke. On the pull stroke, though, it tends to lift the teeth out of the cut.
If you look at a typical crosscut tooth, you'll find that the rake angle is not that much different on the front and back of the tooth. I've seen saws filed with equal angles front and back. A Disston-type handsaw will cut on the backstroke, but only if you add downward pressure to the cut. That's awkward to do with that style handle.
A good saw shop can easily wipe out the teeth on your handsaw and re- cut them so that they are facing backwards. Try it. Don't use a good saw, though - I don't think you'll like it.
John Martin
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I use a wheelchair John. Able bodied people stand above the work they're cutting and use their body as a major part of the force needed for a push to cut stroke. That's not something I can do anymore. Typically, when I use a handsaw, I *am* pulling on a downward angle, so the type of saw I'm looking for is exactly what I need and what I want. I've also got a smaller toolbox saw with that cuts on the pull stroke and it works great as far as I'm concerned.
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wrote in message

I admire your spirit, keeping on doing something important to you and not just quitting.
Bravo!
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"Lowell Holmes" wrote

Ditto ... well said!
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I often cut from below with a pull stroke as well. But with a pruning saw, not a handsaw. The pruning saw has a handle somewhat like that on a Disston-type handsaw, and the teeth are designed to cut on the pull stroke. Just what you want. But the low placement of the handle and the curve of the blade put your pulling force below the line of the teeth, so that it keeps them biting into the work.
The typical Disston-type handsaw has the handle well above the cutting line of the teeth. Regardless of the position you cut from, pulling on the handle tends to lift the teeth away from the work.
You might get it to work better if you punch new holes in the blade and reposition the handle so that it is below the teeth.
John Martin
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