PVC for air

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Robatoy wrote:

Look at the first line you wrote above: I met every criteria you asked for. Now you're adding conditions?
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com
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Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

You did not meet the criteria. You did not point to a situation where the PVC pipe had exploded... it was a truck tire. The topic here is PVC piping.
Having said that, I have discovered one of the errors of mine and that is the air plumbing in the old shop is in fact ABS. My apologies. I also read the other links that kind Wreckers have posted. I would never even think of PVC in an industrial application. Service air systems in my history have been driven by 100 HP rotary vane compressors at pressures of 300 PSIG and higher. 4" lines are not uncommon in power generation. To be blowing craters of the dimensions stated in some of the reports, one needs a whole lot more than a basic wood-workers' compressor. Therefore the parallels are ridiculous.
Even though, in one of the reports it states "Gas Transmission and Distribution Piping Systems Standard, limit the operating pressure of plastic piping distribution systems to 100 pounds per inch (psi)", which makes me think that PVC isn't as fragile as some think it is, it obviously isn't worth taking a chance on PVC. I hereby retract my careless endorsement of PVC and suggest we stick to copper, ABS or other stuff I have never heard of before.
Lesson learned, ABS isn't PVC and you can't get anything past this alert crew of wreckers.
Thanks for the corrections.
r
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On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 08:40:18 -0500, Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

Truck tire "explosions" are common--it's not the tire that explodes but an improperly assembled rim that separates, and if one of the pieces hits someone he generally gets hurt--truck wheels are rather large and the rims are rather heavy.

--
--John
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If you are actually mounting a tire on a split rim you have the very real possibility of the ring coming off and causing damage. Additionally it is becoming less common to see split rim wheels and tires do explode when being seated on regular one piece wheels.
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Robatoy wrote:

Anecdotal only. My boss at my old job had a neighbor who tired to inflate a space-saver spare tire to 32 psig or so instead of the rated maximum.
It separated from the rim and the blast of air blew his face off of his skull.
That's not a terribly good analog to the present discussion.
What size pipe is pretty important in this context.
IIRC, plastic soda-pop bottles are rated for about 150 psig. So you could take a small one, put some vinegar in it and then drop in some baking soda wrapped in wax paper, screw on the cap and put it somewhere safe to see how big a bang it makes.
Please note, this may be illegal in your locale. If that is the case, don't do it.
--

FF


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snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net wrote:
> IIRC, plastic soda-pop bottles are rated for about 150 psig. > So you could take a small one, put some vinegar in it and > then drop in some baking soda wrapped in wax paper, > screw on the cap and put it somewhere safe to see how > big a bang it makes.
When I was a kid, would use a glass Mason jar, put in a rock for weight, some carbide and water, then screw on lid and toss in the creek.
The carbide and water combined to produce acetylene gas which would expand and cause the glass jar to burst while under water.
Any fish would float to the surface for easy pickings.
Lew
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Moden day space saver tires are usually inflated in excess of 50lbs. I suspect his spave saver tire was old and rottten.
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Leon wrote:

Old yes. Not rotten. The original ones were only to be inflated to 12 psig or something like that. Accidents of the sort described are why those are no longer available.
Memory dims but I think they were collapsible with the tire folded into the rim.
--

FF


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Yes those were the original space savers with a canister of air for filling.
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Leon wrote:

The 2006 Porsche Carrera GT comes with a can of puncture fix. No spare. Reason being, that there is no room for a spare..even a small temporary one, but most of all there certainly isn't any room to put any of the wheel/tires that would come off the car... even when flat. HUGE rear wheels. (335/30 ZR20 got to get them 600 ponies to the street somehow, eh?)
Don't need no steeenking spares....
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Robatoy wrote:

If you can afford the car you don't need a spare. Two phone calls, one to your limo drive to pick you up and one to "Estate Maintenance" to came and get the car.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
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Nova wrote:

lol.. I guess so. So few of us have a gardener who is also a factory trained mechanic.
r
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Oh yeah!! That stuff can serve as shrapnel too. Ever heard the expression, "When the shit hit the fan".
Max
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Yes, there is -- don't.

So use steel. Never, never, never, never use PVC/CPVC for compressed air. It's been discussed here a number of times before. Do a Google Groups search on this newsgroup, and I'm sure you'll find a few horror stories.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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If you like the idea of PVC shards being driven about the shop by 150 psi pressure, I say go fer it.
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"Dave Balderstone" wrote Max wrote:

Sounds fascinating but I think I'll pass. I considered black pipe but it's heavy, ugly, and a hassle to cut and thread even though I have the required tools. Over a hundred bucks for the copper choice but what the hell, it's only money.
Max (bemoaning the price of copper)
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Neither PVC nor CPVC is considered safe for compressed air service. This is according to both OSHA and the pipe manufacturers. There are some flexible plastic products that can be used for air lines, i don't know how they price compared to copper.
--
For every complicated, difficult problem, there is a simple, easy
solution that does not work.
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I did my air in black iron pipe, mostly because of the dangers of exploding PVC as already mentioned by other posters. In hindsight, I'm wondering if I might have done better with PVC.
All of my lines are in the walls of my shop. There is 1/2 inch plywood on one side of them and steel siding on the other. I'd do black iron pipe where it came through the wall, but other than that the PVC would be well protected.
Anybody wager a guess if an exploding 1 inch PVC pipe could go through 1/2 inch plywood? The pipes couldn't be hit by anything, but summer heat might soften the PVC to the point it would burst
-- Frank Stutzman
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You're better without the PVC. If for nothing else but it allowing you to be lazy.

How are you going to show that off to friends that drop by?

When that happens and you want to use the air again, you're probably going to be quite impatient.

Hm... looks like the virtues of a Perl programmer apply to more than just Perl. :-)
http://www.netropolis.org/hash/perl/virtue.html (An explanation)
Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
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And you are implying that there is something wrong with being lazy?
Besides allowing me to be lazy, the PVC would also allow me to be cheap. Cheap AND lazy. Be still my beating heart ;-)

As you implied, I'm lazy. When friends drop by the shop, we drink beer. Beer + whirling sharp things means missing fingers, which is a shop verboten ("ten in, ten out" is written on the door).
Doubt if any of the beer swillers really give a damn what my plumbing is like. Pneumatic plumbing.

True. But I spent better than a week cutting, threading and cursing that black pipe. I could have done the PVC thing in a few hours. Could have made a lot of sawdust in that week. If the heat caused a failure once in 10 years then maybe the trade off might be worth it.

Again, you imply being lazy, impatient and full of hubris is a bad thing. Its worked for me for 45 years.
(what is really scary is I knew exactly what you were talking about without even looking at that URL).
--
Frank Stutzman


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