Purchasing Planes - Bulk discounts?

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I'm looking to acquire a full set of hand planes. It's my desire to try and purchase all of my plane needs from one good manufacturer. Lie Nielsen and Lee Valley come immediately to mind, but I wouldn't rule out Clifton either.
Here is the wish list...
#6 or #7 jointer with 2 blades #5 Jack with 2 blades #3 or #4 Smoother, 2 blades Bull nosed plane Convex spokeshave Concave spokeshave Scraper plane Rebate plane Jointing fence for #7 and/or #5
I'm aware that not all companies make all planes - ie. LV doesn't carry #5, they make a #5 1/4W (fiveandaquarterdoubleyou). I'm looking for a good even balance.
If you decide to purchase them all at the same time, can you get "bulk" pricing? Any dealer recommendations?
JP
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You should really talk to Steve Knight. Really, really.
No, I don't get a commision. <g>
djb
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Talk to Steve Knight. He has great hand made hand planes and I bet he will make you a deal. http://www.knight-toolworks.com
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I'll do that. One question I have is whether the fettling of a wooden plane is significantly more time consuming on an ongoing basis than one of metal. I don't mind spending a few hours with a new plane out of the box, but I don't really want to be having to tweak this and tap that for 15 minutes every time I use it.
JP
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wrote:

Jay, two of the brands you mentioned earlier have, in my experience, required essentially NO fettling out of the box. Those being Veritas/LV and Lie-Nielsen. Pretty much clean the shipping preservative crud off, touch up the blade with the highest grit (often not needed, but a habit is a habit), and look for some wood to make into shavings.
LV I own: 5 1/4w, standard and low angle blocks, medium shoulder plane, three spoke shaves. LN I own: standard angle block, chisel plane, #85 cabinet maker's scraper plane, bevel chisels, and cabinet scrapers.
Others have reported similar experience with Steve's planes. I haven't yet used the short crowbar on Steve's behalf, but I believe that time will come.
On the other hand, futzing with a recent manufacture Record #4 has been a total waste of time and $75. Old Stanley planes (#3,#4,#6 & #78) purchased from Patrick Leach were easy to get into top shape, but this Record serves only to add mass to the toolbox these days....
On the initial topic, of all of one brand of handplane: That would, in my shop, take all of the joy from finding a new/old tool, when the urge struck me. Could I put a vintage #7 or #8 in the same rack with new, spiffy Canadian updates on a century-old design? Would they get along? Would the LV speak only French amongst themselves? Would a Japanese plane feel out of place? Or a fine old British piece? Or a Krenov-inspired homebuilt? ;-)
The former was meant as tongue-in-cheek, of course. The truth is, that, until I give up the hobby, and the shop is divided, there will likely NOT be such a thing as a complete collection of handplanes.
You may have more self-control.
Patriarch
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snip

I've had a similar experience with a Record #4. Eventually I gave up and relegated it to dust magnet duties. Lately I've been thinking about turning it into a scrub plane. Anyone done this? Near as I can tell about all I have to do is put an arc on the blade.
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On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 07:13:46 GMT, Lobby Dosser

open up the mouth
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snipped-for-privacy@thanks.com wrote in

I just knew there was something I was forgetting. Thanks!
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On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 07:13:46 +0000, Lobby Dosser wrote:

I'm thinking of doing the same with a Stanley type 20 (blue period) #4. Anyone who has tried this, give us your experience please.
Also stumbled across this: <http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?SID=&ccurrency=2&page2635&category=1,310> It's an insert that replaces the blade of a #4 - #8 with a scraper. Thought of trying this out with a type 20 #5.
--
Joe Wells


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Anyone ever used this? Good? Bad? Ugly?
JP
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wrote:

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/tool.html?id &cart421032829539
I have one of these. It is so beautiful, it just called out my name, and begged to be taken home. My wife had just spent $400 on silver and turqoise jewelry, and so she was in a good mood. This is why dealers need to stock more handplanes.
The thing is, I get so much better results with these: http://www.lie-nielsen.com/tool.html?id=HSset&cart 421032829539
that the 85 just sits there most of the time, looking good, but not contributing much else.
And the really gnarly stuff seems to end up going through the drum sander anyway. Try as I might, I seem to be a backsliding Normite after all.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?pageH431&category=1,41182,48945&cc urrency=2&SID= is more money, but, I think, a better investment of the time and cash. Excellent reviews here by respected voices.
Careful, Jay. Will power. Self control. Beware the slippery slope.
Patriarch
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wrote:

Ugly, IMHO. I'm as big a fan of LV as there is, but this wasn't one of their better ideas. The scraping insert flexed too much (even with the thicker optional blade), so it chattered something awful at the start of the cut. I managed to make it work, but eventually just gave up on it, as it was also hard to adjust and hard to keep adjusted. You'd be better off just buying their #80 clone, IMHO.
Chuck Vance
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On 14 Jul 2004 07:13:34 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@txstate.edu (Conan The Librarian) wrote:

Thanks to you and patriarch. I'm a pretty big fan of hand scrapers these days, as I've taken a shine to them for cutting down a finish. Much nicer than sandpaper, and quick once you acquire the manual dexterity. I've actually cut a couple of the thinner ones in half to get into tighter areas. The shavings certainly don't clump up like swarf sometimes does.
JP
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Jay Pique wrote:

Glad to be of help.

AFAIC, the only limits to scrapers' usefulness is your imagination. I've got two sets of them, thick and thin, in all the normal shapes, and I use them for all sorts of things. I've also custom-shaped a few edges with files to use for things like scraping the insides of bowls or curves on candleholders or other "turned" items (I don't have a lathe, so I do my "turning" with spokeshaves, gouges, etc.)
They're also handy for making scratch stocks. I take various files to create the profiles I want and then use them in a customized wooden marking gage that I converted to a scratch stock.
Oh, and Lee Valley sells some mini-scrapers that you might find handy: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page2672&category=1,310,41069&abspage=1&ccurrency=2&SID They're dirt-cheap, so you can play around with putting custom profiles on them without worrying about messing up one of your bigger scrapers. (Though when you think about, it's hard to mess up a scraper. Even if you put custom profile on the corners of a rectangular scraper, in use, the corners don't come in contact with the work.) And it's sometimes handy to have a scraper that you can use one-handed.
Chuck Vance
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On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:14:31 -0500, Conan the Librarian

"C" = ?

You know I think I've looked at that website and catalog a hundred times and never seen those! That's *exactly* what I could have used the other day.

I like the idea of putting various sized roundovers on the edges of scrapers - that way you can quickly and easily clean up the profiles on mouldings. Those things get more and more use (by me) every passing day. Time for a top notch burnisher. I think I'll like the screwdriver type ones much better than the automatic LV one I have now.
One thing that's made a huge difference for me has been using 400 grit paper to lap the sides and get the edge dead smooth and square. The LV burnisher puts a good hook on it, but I've heard that you should "draw" the hook first and then roll it - which the LV burnisher cannot do. I'll probably get the LV screwdriver type burnisher (although I've heard some mixed reviews!) as shown here http://tinyurl.com/4ql85 .
JP
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Jay Pique wrote:

"Concerned", as in "As Far As I'm Concerned".

They are very handy to have around the shop.

I'd recommend you get a Hock burnisher. He supplies the rod and you make the handle for it. I've had one since I first started using scrapers and it's oneof my "old reliable" tools.
The LV thing is OK, but I prefer to do it the old-fashioned way. I put different-sized hooks on different edges of my scrapers, and it's easier to control with a standard burnisher.

Absolutely. Your hook is only as good as the prepared edge. Take a little extra time to do that right and you'll have better results. Don't do it and you'll be frustrated with scrapers.

I can't comment on that one, but again, the Hock one is great.
And yes, you should draw the hook first.
Chuck Vance
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Once you get a wooden plane adjusted, it's as trouble free as a metal one. They do work well.
question I have is whether the fettling of a wooden

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Not quite. If you have an outdoor/garage shop, you may find that the plane moves a bit with changes in humidity, and the sole may have to be touched up occasionally. It's just a fact of life.
Don't believe me? Check out this article by planemakers Bill Clark and Larry Williams on their website that discusses movement in wooden plane bodies:
http://www.planemaker.com/articles/benchplane.html

I agree totally. My go-to smoother when all else fails is a wooden C&W.
Chuck Vance
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IIRC Steve's planes have an adjustment screw to help set the blade. I leave my blade exposed all the time and seldom have to adjust it.

will
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Don't, at least, not just yet.
There are few reasons short of earthquake or burglary to need to buy a whole set of top-end planes in one go. You _rarely_ need all of them for a particular piece of work (or even many similar pieces) and there's a lot to be said for learning as you go.
Your first decent plane should definitely be an eBay Stanley #4 or #5, tuned up yourself. This size because they're representative and useful, a Stanley because there's plenty out there to buy cheaply and they're good enough to use (if you get a reasonable age, i.e. anything "between the wars"). Most importantly, you should refurbish such a plane yourself, because only that will give you the real "hands-on" that is the only way to really understand what you're dealing with.

Why ? There's a certain consistency to buying all your bench planes (#3..#7) from one maker, but I see no reason to extend this to block planes and scrapers. If a manufacturer makes a good #4, then their #5 is probably good too, but that says nothing about their block planes, even if they make them at all.
Talking of block planes, you missed out the essential LV low-angle block (and maybe the normal angle one too). Beautiful bit of work.

Why would I want two different irons in a jointer ?

Why would I want two different irons in a #5 ? Although I see the usefulness, I can't imagine stopping and changing them around all day. Get two bodies (or more - a #5 is a useful size).

IMHO, the #4 isn't much use as a smoother. For your apparent budget, get one of Steve's, a Norris A5 _and_ a couple of everyday clunkers.

Got one somewhere. Rarely use it.

Got these somewhere. Never use either.
Stright spokeshaves (flat or curved base, straight blade) get used all the time. I'd suggest the LV "metal-bodied wooden spokeshave", they also do a #151 pattern now, and my personal favourites are the little old Stanley #63 & #64.

Got at least three of these (#112, #80, #12) - never stop using them. Get a LV #112 and a Stanley #80.

There are lots of sorts of these. Rebate or shoulder ? Big or little ? I use a #92 and a #78 in equal measure, depending on size of the job. There's a couple of #10s for big stuff, and I have enough #78s (actually the Record #778 is better here) so that I can keep each one with the fence set to the right depth, which saves a lot of time on big repetitive jobs.

Thumb works. A #7 is too heavy to take much account of a fence anyway, unless you're already holding it straight.
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