Psychology of a woodworker

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Lazarus Long responds:

You mean they had prices on that site?
Charlie Self "When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary." Thomas Paine
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Prices? What were they selling?
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I've owned enough Black and Decker power tools to never buy another one. They don't last, even under hobby use. (I won't buy any more Craftsman power tools, either, because they always seem to have non-standard sized accessories.) I'm going to try it the other way for awhile and see how it goes. So far my Porter Cable and DeWalt tools are doing the job, but it's too early to pass judgement on them.
I think it's ignorance, not insecurity that drives me to buy tools I don't have a use for. I start out thinking I'll use them, find out that they don't do the job I'd hope they'd do, and then they languish.
As for the projects, I make what I can't buy (i.e. custom jobs), or can't afford to buy. Even after paying for the tools and wood, for large scale items it's definitely cheaper to make than to buy (factoring out the time cost, of course). What I make fits, and I can service it myself if it needs fixing or changing.
- Owen -
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Sun, Oct 24, 2004, 1:44pm snipped-for-privacy@iosphere.net (Owen Lawrence) says: I've owned enough Black and Decker power tools to never buy another one. They don't last, even under hobby use. <snip>
Damn, right, they don't last any time at all. Why my B&D sabre saw only lasted 25-26 years. Pitiful. And, my B&D 21-22 year old circular saw is probably gonna die any day now. Shameful. Not to mention my almost 30 years old B&D drill. Disgusting.
JOAT Eagles can soar ... but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
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On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:25:29 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote:

A 40 year old B&D drill will run forever. A 30 year old one will last for as long as you can get spare gearbox pinions. A 3 year old one is probably dead already.
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If we had kept the B&D jigsaw that fried after a year and a half, it would be just over 30 years old now. I guess there's a high variance in their quality. My Makita's doing fine under the same kind of load. We'll see what happens...
- Owen -
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On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:24:35 -0400, "Owen Lawrence"

What colour was it ? Greeny-blue plastic ? That's when the rot set in. The early jigsaws in particular were terrible.
I've still got an orange and white metal-bodied drill that works so long as you feed it the odd gearbox pinion and new switch. There are a couple of gold and silver drills around that never die. For polishing I use a 50 year old Bridges 5/16" drill (pale blue, not the black and yellow "hornet") that's half the weight and still feels like new.
OTOH, the plastic one-piece jigsaws were a huge improvement over the old "attachment" sort for the metal bodied drills. I don't think I've ever used a tool that was so badly balanced or vibrated so much.
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Smert' spamionam

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wrote:

No, it was small and black all over. My uncle (a VERY handy handyman) picked it up for my father one day, so I can't tell you the model or anything. I was a teenager then. It was loud, shook, made sparks, some sawdust, and then eventually smoke. Really, it's not worth talking about.
I'm pretty surprised at the range of opinions expressed here, about Black and Decker tools. While I'm still using an old B&D router (another inherited item), in place of my newer B&D router (my own purchase), I plan to buy a new, very significant router next, and will try to get the biggest toughest featuredest machine I can for between $300 and $400. It's becoming clear that I can't afford the cheapies. Maybe it's just my own bad luck, but I haven't been happy with any of my B&D tools, and for better or worse, my loyalty has been skewed.
(Hopefully my DeWalt grinder won't let me down any time soon. :))
- Owen -
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On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:08:42 -0400, "Owen Lawrence"

The black stuff is terrible, but I thought that was 20 years old maximum ? Maybe the US / UK colours were different..
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On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:25:29 -0400, J T wrote:

I think the key to you two gentlemen's disagreement lies in the age of the tools mentioned above. The question on the floor is the quality of present-day tools by these manufacturers.
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I've seen, and unfortunately worked with, some of B&D's poorer "Homeowner Hal" equipment that made my Crapsman stuff look really high end! However, I do have to say my first router, a B&D 1/4" about 9-10yr. old, has been a very good tool. From there I've gone on to a 2HP Crapsman(we better not talk about THAT one) and the PC7539. The B&D still remains my everyday work mutt.
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Nahmie
The law of intelligent tinkering: save all the parts.
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Australopithecus scobis wrote:

Got me one of those B&D drills the year I got married 1967, still have it and it still works well, even had smoke coming out of it about 20 years ago when I used it to hone the cylinders of an engine I was rebuilding. Couple years ago I thought something a little bigger than 1/4 inch drive and variable speed would be nice. Went in to the local Borg and lo and behold they had this red plastic skil thing in the clearance bin for 20 bucks. Then we bought a new house a year ago and I had to put some holes in the concrete basement. - Tool sale some company set up in a local hall to sell Chinese knockoff junk. Did get some clamps for from 3 - 6 bucks each depending on size, they work fine. I like them even better than the 6" bessey F clamps I have their handles have grooves in them so my hand doesn't slip when tightening or loosening them. Then I saw it a 1/2" hammer drill for 29 bucks. Figured if it lasted through the holes I had to do it would have paid for itself right there. Almost made it too. Stopped dead in the 3rd (last) hole. Used the B&D to finish up. Didn't expect much from the hammer drill for 29 bucks, the company that made it was so proud of their work they didn't even put their name on it, but less than 3 holes. Took it apart and found where the wire which had been crimped on the brush spring came apart, soldered it and the drill works fine now for how long who knows.
Took up woodorking a couple years ago when I retired and figured I should get a router and having had good luck with my B&D drill and not having a clue what I was doing I bought a 2HP (ya right) B&D plunge router. The guy who designed that one should be buried up to his neck in an anthill where every person that bought a tool he designed can come and watch. Works fine if you don't mind the fact that there are no add on accessorys that will fit it and there is no fine height adjustment so you spend 1/2 an hour our so trying to get the bit height right. Needless to say when I get my new one later this year it will NOT be B&D. Rick
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I am a common woodworker. Come from a long line of them. You, on the other hand are not even a decent hobbyist woodworker. If you were, you'd understand what drives us very well. I had no problems with the father. Always love in daddy's hands. If I'm viewed as the alpha male by those around me it's simply because the quality and creativity of my work warrants that respect. That, and the desire to foster other woodworkers skills without downgrading their work. As far as being "non-intellectual blue collar common man" I think you better watch your mouth. Just because a man doesn't wear a suit and tie to work does not mean that he is non- intellectual. I gobble up books, magazines and other sources of information constantly. Although I cannot quote "great literary novels" or solve physic equations, I have no desire to. I instead chose to utilize what talents God has given me. I read about and learn what I know is valuable in my life, I have no time to waste on what I deem as useless information. Calluses on my hands are part of who I am, not something to show off to my friends. As far as being "insecure" I think YOU don't have a clue whatsoever. I am a professional carpenter and avid woodworker who makes a modest living and am quite happy with it. The only thing that would make me insecure in life is knowing that I have to rely on so many others to exist. If the world took a change for the worst today and money became worthless, I know I can survive with my skills and what I have here on my land. Moreover, my whole life's work cannot be summed up into a couple of files on a hard drive somewhere. What these calloused hands create will outlive me for generations. Whether I choose a Craftsman or Powermatic tool is irrevalent, as it is for any real woodworker. The proof is what the craftsman can do with that tool, how it complements his/her talents. Buying the most expensive tools -at least in your case- would be to show off how much money you have and not to complement your talents as a craftsman, as I suspect you really have none. If you have to question why someone would ever build their own furniture or etc, instead of buying it, you obviously have never tried creating anything you were proud of and enjoyed making.
Or maybe you did try....Maybe you thought you could make anything better than that "non-intellectual blue-collar common man " if you bought the best tools money can buy, and found out he could kick your ass with less expensive tools. Maybe you lack imagination. Maybe you lack common sense. Maybe you are the insecure non intellectual factor here.

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If you were a wood worker you would not have to post this question.

What drives a Dill Weed to post abrasive posts like yours?
Insecurity.
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A desire to create something tangible. Why do some people learn to paint, or to draw, to play the piano, or to cook? It's the same thing.

(grunt grunt)

The thing wrong with most Craftsman and B&D tools is that they aren't very much cheaper than real tools, they are less effective, and they break a lot sooner.

Well, most of us don't get into woodworking because we aspire to build some butt-jointed, screwed together, MDF desk covered with cheap plastic laminate.

Good troll.
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I don't believe ya'll are responding to someone who hasn't a clue of what he's talking about.
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Man In The Doorway wrote:

An intellectually conceited troll person who probably won't be able to learn anything from even the clearest responses (I'm inclined to agree with Sidney Lanier's observation that "Swinehood hath no remedy," but will suggest:
A desire to have or give something more beautiful and/or more functional (or both) than would otherwise be possible.
A desire to create - to convert a personal vision into reality; and by so doing to enrich one's own life and the lives of all others touched by that reality.

For the same reason that you don't own a Yugo. As with other products, experienced users recognize a spectrum of quality; and discover that higher quality products deliver the greatest amount of satisfaction.
You may not care what other people do - but your caring isn't particularly important. My SO is particularly pleased with her new light table (that masquerades as a living room end table when not in use) which allows her to trace her drawings onto fabric for quilting. Where would you buy such a thing (at /any/ price)?
Next time you're out shopping, take a gander at your options for heating systems and let me know what kind of prices you find on furnaces that come with a lifetime supply of free fuel. I doubt you'll find one for less than what it costs me to build one in my shop.

Sorry to hear that - you might build self-confidence and become more secure if you spent a bit of your leisure time creating a few useful and beautiful objects in your own workshop.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
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Man In The Doorway wrote:
<< pretty much as before >>
Wow! A 3 year interval without posting. That's pretty good. But you shoulda' made it at least a whole decade.
For all our sakes.
BugBear
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I presume you've been hurt badly (perhaps by a woodworker), and are trying to work through that by passing on the hurt. Most of us can handle wrathfulness, I'm sorry that you got hurt. It sounds like you've discovered some of our weaknesses, but everyone has those. You made a point of demonstrating what yours is.
I also suspect that, at the core, you don't feel better after your negative remarks. You may find that a more constructive cast will yield better results.
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This is not even close to your previous efforts. I can only go about 5.5 here.
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Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
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