Progress on the Nightstands

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On 2/1/2016 3:21 PM, OFWW wrote:

Here is the way I look at it, if you are introducing mechanical metal slides you are crossing that line away from really high end craftsmanship. IOT if I don't to see compromises I build a web frame in the cabinet, with center guide and a matching center guide for the drawer, out of wood. No metal.... But in kitchen cabinets that will see a lot of wear, and like Swingman said, wood on wood movement does not hold up for the long haul.
Anyway if you are looking for a pretty good side mount full extension 100# Soft close slide I buy from this place. Really good pricing for a KV distributed product.
http://www.cabinethardware.com/G-Slide-4270-100LB-Full-Ext-Slide-with-Soft-Close-p/1012.htm
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The link info was great, less expensive that what I can get here locally, even less than the box stores.
We decided at the beginning to use metal slides for their full length extension capability, making it far easier to get at the stuff at the back of the cabinet without having to unload the cabinet every time you need something.
I also ran across a mention of a slide with an extra 3/4 " extension for drawers that are under the counter top so that those drawers are also fully extendable when you take the countertop overhang into account.
Thanks again Leon.!
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You are welcome. Keep in mind that the over travel slides can be a bit pricey for that extra 3/4" of travel. You cab accomplish the same thing by simply making the drawer 3/4" or more shorter front to back.
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I was thinking about that very same thing. Thanks for the confirmation.
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On 2/1/2016 3:21 PM, OFWW wrote:

The jig, as shown, works equally well with side mount drawer slides.
AAMOF, that is what it was originally designed for.
The practice of mounting "side mount" drawer slides on a spacer, then mounting that assembly to the sides of face frame cabinets, dates back to the introduction of the modern drawer slide.
Go on any residential construction site in the country during installation of the kitchen cabinets and you will likely see something identical in use by the trim carpenters during drawer installation.
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On 2/1/2016 6:09 PM, Swingman wrote:

I think you better reword that. LOL Most residential construction sites use prefab and the drawers and slides are already in the cabinets when they are delivered.
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On 2/1/2016 10:27 PM, Leon wrote:

Not all new homes being built today are cookie cutter "tract" homes; and certainly not all those use pre-fab cabinets.
Although the trend to further cut costs by using pre-fabs (versus built-ins or custom cabinets) has certainly grown since the bust of 2008 in the "spec" home market, pre-fabs, being particularly suited to "cookie cutter" constructions methods, are still rarely seen in "spec" homes; and even more rarely in "custom" homes.
Even then, it is evident that the cabinetry in _most_ homes in existence in most parts of the country today are not prefabs, but most likely to be onsite built-ins, which almost always require component installation to be done onsite.
Just another reason why the modern drawer slide/cabinet hinge hardware business has grown by leaps and bounds during the last twenty+ years.
And, which makes knowing how to efficiently, and cost effectively, use and install that type of hardware a valuable skill today.
That skill being basically being the subject of the thread. ;)
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Granted but I believe the trend has been headed that way for quite some time in other than totally custom built homes or in our case, when upper end remodeling. Perry homes has been better cookie cutter and still offered job site built cabinets up until about 10 years ago.
Out where I live I would venture to say the vast majority of the homes built in the last 20 years had prefab including the homes approaching $1M.

Understood and agreed but I highly suspect that the homers you are referencing are a much smaller percentage of what is being built since the 70's.

Correct and I agree here but you mentioned to go on any residential construction site in the country during installation of the kitchen cabinets and you will likely see something identical in use by the trim carpenters during drawer installation. residential home site construction and I took that to mean new home construction.
I think we are just looking at what you said differently. Obviously we never installed drawers in the kitchens that we did together prior to install.

Well the prefab cabs are certainly coming with better hardware, that is for sure. I was a bit surprised that Colon & Reeda's new home with prefab cabinets came with full extension side mount slides but equally surprised that they were not soft close.

Absolutely.

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On 2/2/2016 8:01 AM, Leon wrote:

Pffft ... I think you're just arguing because my deck is bigger than yours. LOL
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On 2/2/2016 8:26 AM, Swingman wrote:

Guilty!
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That means he can come over to your place more often and mooch some barbeque. :)
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On 2/2/2016 9:44 AM, snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote:

He keeps this up, it's crackers and water ... :)
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On 1/31/2016 8:21 PM, OFWW wrote:

Many "undermount" drawer slides, designed to mount under the drawer, allow you to build a wider drawer, but the bit you gain in drawer width you may lose in drawer height, but not all that radical.
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopDrawerSlideJig?noredirect=1
That said, I most always use those in fine cabinetry and high dollar kitchens.
Basically, there are tradeoffs the consumer pays for modern technology/conveniences ... like easy opening and closing, long lasting, smooth operating, low maintenance, and modern features like self closing, and full extension slides.
There are many more traditional ways to build and mount drawers, but in environments like kitchens and bathrooms the drawbacks of those traditional methods (mostly that rely on inherent wood on wood contact points that do not handle gracefully the load of a modern kitchen drawer, especially over long periods of time), all are a hard sell these days.
When you get right down to it, the aesthetic beauty of the old fashioned, hand crafted drawer in a fine piece of furniture will generally not hold up to the use required in the modern kitchen.
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Depends. If your project has face frames, then you won't see most of the drawer slide. No need for dados there.
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On 2/1/2016 1:39 PM, snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote:

The drawer would have to have a groove big enough for the whole slide to fit into, including the cabinet portion of the slide.
If not, the drawer would not close as the drawer portion of full extension slides imbeds into the cabinet side of the slide.
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Yeah, you're right. I wasn't thinking.
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On 2/1/2016 11:48 PM, snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote:

I had to think about it too. ;~) Even with drawings. LOL
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Do you make dovetails on all four corners of your drawers? Normally speaking?

Given even the straight hardware costs I can see why. When I counted up the drawers I'll be installing, it gets pretty pricey.

I can see why, every one wants "nice."

My Kitchen and bathroom drawers lasted 30+ years before the drawer faces would occasionally come free, or the drawer boxes started coming apart.
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On 2/1/2016 3:39 PM, OFWW wrote:

For fine furniture and cabinetry, normally yes.
For Tier 1 kitchen cabinets with 3/4" sides and 1/2" bottoms, depends upon the budget.
Tier 2 kitchen cabinets, not usually, just on the front.
Consider the two most detrimental forces that act upon a kitchen cabinet drawer that cause it to fail:
1.The sheer force acting on the drawer sides when pulling the drawer out by the drawer front, or false front.
2. The downward force of the load on the drawer bottom from the contents.
Front dovetails totally mitigate #1;
And a dadoed drawer back, cut high enough to allow a thinner drawer bottom to slide into grooves, thereby allowing for drawer bottom replacement, instead of a new drawer if it becomes necessary from overloading, mitigates, to a large extent #2.

Proves the point: A 30 year old kitchen is not a "modern" kitchen, and it appears some of the existing drawers did not even withstand that. ;)
Note: I can make a good living just bringing 7 year old kitchen cabinet components in multi-million dollar homes up to modern standards (that's how shoddy residential construction workmanship is these days) ... and certainly anything older for damned sure. LOL
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Super great advice, thank you.
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