Price of Oil and WW

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I knew this would happen sooner or later but Holy Crap Batman. First it was the price of steel and now it's oil. Even though I have switched over to mostly WB stains and finishes I still have a few home brews that require certain organic chemicals to complete. The price of one has gone up 11% in 3 months while another has gone up 58%. When I asked about the 58% increase I was told that their supplier had had a long term supply agreement with his supplier that has expired and his feed stock has risen about the same %. I know that the WB will increase in price somewhat because the resins, etc. use oil as feed stock but I am glad I have spent the time investigating alternatives to traditional oil based stains and finishes. And, I am glad I don't heat with oil or gas. Yes, I am lucky to have my own wood supply. JG
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According to our local TV news in Houston, "now get this," The reason the price of crude oil is going up is because we do not have the capacity to refine it. The oil companies blame the emerging China economy but I don't believe that the Chinese are any more able to afford $2.25 per gallon than we are. Basically oil companies merge, they close refineries as a result of the merger, they create a perceived shortage because of the lack of refineries, they jack the price up. Has any one sat in any lines because of gas shortages lately? Right now you can buy gas in Conway, SC for $1.65 per gal and in Kershaw, SC you can get gas for $1.69 per gallon.
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Personally, I am sick of all the price gouging going on being blamed on oil.
As was pointed out, first it was steel. Let's look for a minute. Yup... when steel when up .17 a ton, we saw all the big price increases last year. For an industry that sat stagnant for years, this actually is significant.
I know it has gone up since, but look where the current prices of iron tools have gone in relation to price.
So, some quick math based on round fugures: Jet table saw (Powermatic, Delta, whatever, this is just an example) weighs in at 500 lbs. Soo... that means it used 1/4 of a ton, or 1/4 of our .17 cents increase. Rounding up, make it an even .05 to keep the math simple.
How is it that the average iron tools went up around $100 to $200 in the last 18 months? This started well before our current rate of fuel. I am wondering... did Jet and their compadres put a bit more of iron or steel in their machines?
If they did, our calculations should work approximately (I KNOW THEIR ARE OTHER VARIABLES, but work with me here) like this: If the steel went up .17 per ton, then to cover the $100 price increase on all small machinery across the board that was being blamed on steel, our example table saw would now weigh in accordingly:
$100 / .17 = 588.2 tons of iron. So using their logic (hey... its the price of steel... the Chinese are buying everything in sight) our table saw should weigh 588.2 tons, or 1,176,479 pounds!
Still buying off on that load of crap? Do any of these idiots put a pencil to this before they foister that line of crap off on the public? Change it to a dollar ton, or two dollars a ton, it is still ridiculous to say it was someone other than manufacturers and distributors.
Do the same with a quart of stain. How much of an oil product is in a quart that would make it go up so much? Certainly nothing along the lines you are talking about at a 58% increase.
I just wish these guys would own up to it. They are screwing all of us because they can. The end. No apology needed. No bogus yellow menace undermining our economy, and no crocodile tears and hand wringing.
Woodworking is and has been the fastest growing hobby segment in the US for years now. The demand is there, the pricing doesn't slow down the purchases, nor does the lack of quality. So why not bend us over a little more for the shareholders, eh?
What I wouldn't give to see someone at Jet (or any of the oil companies) say, "well, we actually raised the prices because we wanted to".
Robert
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Where does this figure come from? Prices I've seen are much more that 17 a ton.
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    Greetings and Salutations...
wrote:

    This is most certainly true. Now, if the quoted price were $0.17/lb, I would believe it in a heartbeat!     By the by...It appears that there is a misconception here about the purpose of the steel and petroleum industries. They are NOT in existance to provide the world with steel and fuel at the lowest possible price. They are, essentially, all publically owned through shareholders of their stock. Anytime this happens to a company, the focus of the business ALWAYS changes from producing a product to sucking as much money as possible out of the consumer's pocket, with as little investment in time, energy and materials as is possible. As a product of the capitalistic system, they are going to charge what the market will bear...and apparently that includes the painful increases in prices we have seen over the past year or so. The only thing that will cause those prices to go down is a serious decline in demand.     Regards     Dave Mundt
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This is not an appropriate topic, BUT show me another country with better prices. My guess is that the more planned the economy, the higher the prices. That is most certainly true in Scandinavia and I believe most of modern Europe as well. Look at the returns on capital employed by the big companies. They are generally not extreme. Even the best oils are in the 15% range.
Could you set up a company and do better? Who would work for you?
Wilson
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Wilson wrote:

You're about right. Here are some per-gallon gasoline *taxes* from the second quarter of 2004. Approximate, I'm reading a bar chart here.
Norway: $5.50 UK: $4.25 Netherlands: $3.90 Sweden: $2.50 U. S.: $0.28 Mexico (lowest): $0.25
I've lost the URL, but these estimate came from a big PDF file entitled, "Energy: A Gathering Storm?" by Philip K. Verleger, Jr., Senior Fellow at the Institute for International Economics.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote in

A bigger part of the problem has to do with the weakness of the dollar vs other currencies.
Why the dollar is weak is well beyond the scope of a woodworking discussion, and my economics is a bit rusty tonight.
If an item is priced at a point where it represents little value to you, seek alternate goods or services. Vote with your purchases.
Patriarch
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other currencies
I agree, the USD slid 30% against the Euro last year, since OPEC is paid in USD and they buy their goods in Euro's, the price of oil had to go up.......
--
Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
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Can you really be that obtuse? The public - that's you, too, Leon has created the shortage by their use of more, their dislike of refineries in their back yards, and their contempt for the companies who are trying to get them the goods at the lowest price.
See the shoot-from-the-hip "analysis" of iron as a function of tool cost in reply, then figure where the cost of oil really lies. Hint, it's not necessarily in the price of crude at a buck ten a gallon.
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<snip>

this word "shortage" keeps coming up and I'd like to know where it is. You, I, and everyone else in this country can buy all the gas we want as long as we're willing to pay the price.
There are no lines, no dry tanks at the stations, no tank trucks sitting idle for lack of product.
High prices may be reducing demand a bit but I think it's miniscule. From all the reports I've seen in the papers very few people are doing anything to curtail any of their travel plans, vacation and otherwise.
I'm no expert but from what I understand it takes 13 days for gasoline to reach Michigan from the Gulf Coast area. Yet when the gulf oil platforms are evacuated because of weather, gasoline here instantly skyrockets before the helicopters even reach land.. Where's the 13-day cushion? And why does that same gasoline sell in Chicago for as much as 45 cents per gallon more, when it's coming from the same pipeline?
There may be legitimate reasons for all this but I have to think most of it stems from pure greed, starting with the oil companies, aided and abetted by those brain-dead "analysts" on Wall Street, and forced on us by the guy who operates the pumps.
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"LP" wrote in message

Driving to Hobby Airport here in Houston yesterday I took a street that is lined with gas stations on both sides for as far as the eye can see ... each and every station, regardless of brand, had the same price/gal to the 10th of a cent.
What other industry can you say that about?
--
www.e-woodshop.net
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wrote:

I think you love conspiracy theories.
When you price a job which will use some of your on-hand inventory, do you price it at acquisition cost or replacement cost? If you said the former, you're a real nice guy who will go broke....
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The supply is the total supply, including what you have in the ground.
Let's try an analogy.... Let's say you buy a fairly exotic car, that maybe 500 were made, and 100 are sitting in the dealership. The other 400 of the other cars are on a ship sailing for the dealership. The ship sinks, so there's only 100 left for purchase. Do you not think that the value of the car goes up?

Taxes, mainly. Even local property taxes can be so different from city to city that it accounts for prices difference.
Gas stations have a fairly small margin on gasoline.
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8+% sales tax on $2.59/gallon is much more than 8+% on $1.79/gallon, at the same consumption levels. Gasoline demand is relatively inelastic over a period of quarters.
Patriarch
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Our state has a fixed tax per gallon, not the usual percentage like the sales tax. They actually lowered the tax a few years ago because so many people were crossing the border to save 5 or more per gallon.
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Most states charge cents on a gallon for tax, they don't charge a percentage.
--
Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
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California, then, would seem, once again, to be the exception. We have both.
But very few toll roads. We do have toll bridges.
Patriarch
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Not really. If you look, there's probably a "roads" excise and a prepaid sales tax charge in other states as well.
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Case of the lazies?
At the pump in the boondocks yesterday $2.39 a gallon. Last I saw the volatile price, $1.31 per gallon ($58/44gal Bbl). Whip the 0.18.5 in Federal and .019 in State excise off, and it gives you $0.785 to transport it, refine it, wholesale it and hope to sell a soda for $4.20 a gallon to stay in business. That assumes an equivalence which is probably not valid, but should make it obvious who is the real winner. Neat thing is, they don't have to do a thing but let the cash flow in....
Remember, the retailer has to price to take credit cards at 2% discount, so pay cash and give him a break.
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