Pozi-cross screws, I hate them

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I don't know what the point of them is compared to the slotted ones. They don't hold the screwdriver well and if you give them a good push and twist the pozi-cross disintegrates and you end up with a misshapen hole that you can't unscrew, something that never happened to me with the slotted ones. I'm also anxious when dealing with them about this point, never wanting to destroy the cross. I hate them.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com writes:

Sounds like you used a philips screwdriver and not the proper pozidriv one. If you use the right one (there is only one size that fits a given screw, neither amller nor larger works) they are really nice and don't tend to drop off from the screwdriver.

--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto: snipped-for-privacy@physik.uni-bonn.de Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Just use Robertson...
Chris
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Me too. Why don't more people (or manufacturers or retailers, I guess) use square drive? Far less likely to strip, the screw stays on your bit, and the bit doesn't tend to cam itself out of the screw like most of the common designs now. Is Robertson a brand of square drive? I couldn't tell for sure after 30 sec of looking at their website. I find myself using Rockler's square drive screws (I know, McFeeley's or Robertson? are probably better...) even when a cheapo drywall screw will do, just because I like the square drive. Andy
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Andy wrote:

Robertson is the original square drive, named after the inventor.
He got screwed over by a British licensee, then because of that refused to let Ford license and exclusively distribute them in the US. Phillips had no problems with those terms.
The rest is history.
The patent expired in '64, so they're slowly making their way out of Canada now, becoming more popular elsewhere.
Chris
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Chris Friesen wrote:

They seem hard to find. I went to the store today with the Robertson in mind and I couldn't see any. They had all sorts of slotted and pozi-cross, perhaps 50 or more varities each, but I never saw any square ones.
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Well if you are using these screws for woodworking may I suggest you step up or back to a 19th or 20th century design screw, actually older than the pozi-cross and Phillips screw. Try the Square drive screw. You'll never look back.
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I hate to tell you this, leon.. but i just used a square drive screw....and then I did it... I looked back.
Now what?
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wrote:

You made me a liar.
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Guinness Book of Records as the first pillar of salt that can type?
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There's a Lot of us...
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Posidriv screws were developed primarily for high-speed automated assembly systems. Dr. Hanappel is correct that there is a specific driver for a specific screw. The majority of the European style cabinet hinges adjust with Posidriv screwdrivers. Adjusting them with Philips drivers can cam-out and destroy the screws.
Robertson square drive screws are the best for woodworking applications as they come in all the right sizes, thread-counts and thread-depths. McFeely's sells screws that simply can't be beat for holding power and strength. The reason why square drive screws didn't get the attention they deserved was that the automotive industry didn't like them. The can jam an automatic-feed driver. The bit won't insert at 45 degrees to the hole. Posidriv screws solved that problem.
Never use a Philips bit to drive a Posidriv.
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wrote:

That may very well be true but originally Henry Ford was looking for a better screw than the slotted screw. Robertson showed him his screw, Ford liked it and wanted to buy the rights to manufacture the Robertson screw. Robertson was only interested in supplying the screw and not selling the rights to manufacture the screw. Negotiations stopped there. Later, this guy Phillips came along, showed him his screw, and the rest is history.
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On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 16:16:08 GMT, "Leon"

Although that's also my understanding of the chronology, there's a little more to it according to McFeeley's catalog. As it turns out the thing the Robertson is great for (positive action without slipping) is anathema to mass assembly. It's much easier to have the tip "cam out" of the head (as a Phillips will do) for torque control than can be done with the square drive. So the failure of the negotiations was a happy accident (for industry).
--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
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Ultimately yes indeed. I think Ford was probably putting each screw in by human power back then One at a time. Had he had a fast way of using slotted screws the square drive surely would have been faster. LOL Ultimately the Philips is quicker for fast multiple installations. Dry wall screws are another situation where the Phillips design works out better.
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The Model T Ford had 700 square drive screws in them according to this blurb:
Robertson Screw In 1908, square-drive screws were invented by Canadian P. L. Robertson. Twenty-eight years before Henry Phillips patented his Phillips head screws, which are also square-drive screws.The Robertson screw is considered the "first recess-drive type fastener practical for production usage." The design became a North American standard, as published in the sixth edition of Industrial Fasteners Institute Metric and Inch Standards. A square-drive head on a screw can be better than a slot head because the screwdriver will not slip out of the screw's head during installation. The Model T car made by the Ford Motor Company (one of Robertson's first customers) used over seven hundred Robertson screws.
Phillips Head Screw In the early 1930s, the Phillips head screw was invented by Henry Phillips. Automobile manufacturers now used car assembly lines. They needed screws that could take greater torque and could provide tighter fastenings. The Phillips head screw was compatible with the automated screwdrivers used in assembly line.
Source: http://inventors.about.com/od/sstartinventions/a/screwdriver.htm
Ultimately, I don't consider anything else but square drive screws. McFeely makes a low-root steel bugle head which is a top performer.
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Well CRAP Robatoy...!!!! The History Channel sure has a different spin on that. I'll keep that in mind the next time some one asks. Thanks.
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LRod wrote:

Oh, that explains it! I always wondered what they're doing in those DIY TV shows when the host is stripping the screw head - they're controlling the torque by cam-out! ;)
Seriously, it seems to me that it must be a piss poor manufacturing operation that utilizes cam-out to control torque. Kind of like using blood loss to indicate the end of the work day.
R
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One would think. but it woks marvelously and is basically the whole principal behind dry wall screws and how deeply they go in.
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Hi guys I guess non of you guys have ever seen the inside of a car assembly plant. I retired a few years ago after 30 years in the car assembly plants, high speed screw guns walk on two feet and nowadays hardly any screws are used on the cars anymore, it's all plastic mouldings with studs moulded on, that are hammered into body holes with steel clips in them, we used to screw a-post, b-post and if there, rear door mouldings and doglegs on the car with screws, also the roof and drip rail chrome strips would be screwed down and inside the windshield and backlight mouldings where screwed on to keep the cloth, and later covered cardboard headliners up and cover up the rubber around the glass. Screw guns, air driven and high speed were and are used to instal screws, by assemblers, and we had several differand style mostly #2 phillip screw tips, to fit the screws, some with small ribs almost like serrated, and magnetic holders, because you would not want the tip to come out of the screw, and damage a chrome and later mostly aluminium and also if you where installing for instance a coat hook and slipped out push that screwtip through your finger. We used wads of soft tar to stick the screw tips in to get rid off any small metal slivers on the tip. Some of the guys would be installing mouldings that kept the vinyl up around the door openings put in several screws, while also holding the moulding in place on every car, and at 60+ cars an hour have any idea how long a tip would last if you would let it torque out ?? and people would not be happy with screws that have skin cutting edges on them. O well this is enough, If you don't know what you're talking about, ask, or go and find out, there is enough BS out there already.
Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo
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