Powermatic 66 fence problem

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Charlie Campney wrote:

I'd bet you've got the most likely suggestion Charlie. It can't be his tape or paralax as others have suggested or he would never have gotten accurate cuts on shorter pieces. If I understand him correctly, he's seeing a run on longer pieces and a blade that is too thin (thin kerf) or one improperly sharpened seem like they could well be the culprit. This has captured my interest - have to mark this thread as one to follow.
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On Sun, 02 May 2004 21:56:31 GMT, "Mike Marlow"
*Charlie Campney wrote: *> Could it be the way the blade is shrpened ? Does it do that with *> other blades. Maybe the blade is pulling the piece away from the *> fence ? *> * *I'd bet you've got the most likely suggestion Charlie. It can't be his tape *or paralax as others have suggested or he would never have gotten accurate *cuts on shorter pieces. If I understand him correctly, he's seeing a run on *longer pieces and a blade that is too thin (thin kerf) or one improperly *sharpened seem like they could well be the culprit. This has captured my *interest - have to mark this thread as one to follow.
...yeah, this *is* an interesting thread, and all the different problems/solutions have been viable. However (heh), the blade idea doesn't apply as I have three *very* good blades (a Forest and a Tenyru Gold Medal, which is my favorite, and a Tenyru melemine blade)...the condition persists with all of them. I send my Forest to Forest to be sharpened, and recently I had the pleasure to try Accurate Cut Carbide Inc., in Utah, for my Tenryu...they're real good, folks, you should check out the DVD disc they promo their shop with...sweet operation. BTW, none of these blades are "thin kerf"...I am not a big fan of thin kerf, unless it's on my 6 1/2 Milwaukee trim saw.
Charlie Groh
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"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...

tape
Mike, it is very possible for this to happen. As I alluded to earlier, a poorly made tape caused a number of problems for me when (IIRC) I used it to measure below 500mm. Although the distance from 0 to 500 was accurate, the markings in between were wrong. They started off tight, then got further apart up to the 500 mark. After that the tape was accurate.
It is easy for me to imagine the reverse being true in the OPs case.
Referenced previous thread can be found at: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&c2coff=1&threadm=JK5T5.4%24zS.4768%40news0.optus.net.au&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fas_q%3Dtape%26safe%3Dimages%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26as_ugroup%3Drec.woodworking%26as_uauthors%3DGreg%2520millen%2520%26lr%3D%26hl%3Den
cheers,
Greg
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Greg Millen wrote:

OK Greg - I can accept that. Wierd, but I can accept it. I'd sure like to believe you experienced an anomoly...
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"Mike Marlow" wrote in message

to
... but I'm still trying to figure how a tapered cut (i.e, wider on one end than the other) could be the result of the tape measure on a table saw fence?
Somebody clue me in.
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* *"Mike Marlow" wrote in message * *> OK Greg - I can accept that. Wierd, but I can accept it. I'd sure like *to *> believe you experienced an anomoly... * *... but I'm still trying to figure how a tapered cut (i.e, wider on one end *than the other) could be the result of the tape measure on a table saw *fence? * *Somebody clue me in.
...the problem is *not* a tapered cut. At about 10" and below the cut piece will measure exactly what the scale reads (using another, reliable, measuring device)...at, say, 30" the cut piece will measure longer than the scale reads...make sense? cg
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Charlie Groh wrote:

OK - time to refresh my aging mind... You are using the term "scale" to refer to the rip fence's built in scale? If so - sorry, I got cornfused in the beginning.
So - what if you lay your tape measure out along the rip fence scale - I'm guessing they do not read the same. Can't understand how they could and you end up with the problem you face. Bad scale? Maybe this is what some of the earlier posters were referring to and I misunderstood their point. A mind is a terrible thing to lose...
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g'day Mike,
I have to tell you I'm laughing here. Reading the posts so far, I am reminded of a scene on tv from ages ago, a policeman is interviewing a crowd and walks away with ten different descriptions, ranging from black, to asian to caucasian. Black hair, red hair, blonde. Too funny!
Anyway, FWIW/IMNSHO/IAGAS, right or wrong, my thinking is this:
Assumptions. Tapering is not a factor TS is tuned correctly, blade square to fence etc.
Facts. 1. Charlie Groh (CG) achieves a perfect measured cut on his TS if the width is <= 10". 2. If CG makes a cut >10", an error of up to + 1/32" is introduced.
Opinion. There are two potential measurement errors here (this does not discount some other error of course).
1. The measurement on the TS is, in fact, accurate and there is no problem at all. CG may *think* he has a problem with the TS when he re-measures the cut piece with an INNACURATE tape such as I described earlier.
2. There is an error on the TS measurement tape.
Alternatives.
1. Parallax error
2. when tightening the fence for a 10" cut, CG may not be tightening it as hard as he does for a 36" cut. The extra tightening may introduce error (though this is unlikely if he checks the readout post tightening).
3. the fence guide bar may be bent slightly (reaching here).
4. Handling technique used to cut a 10" piece vice a 36" piece is different and introduces an error.
For CG.
Charlie, if I were you, I'd start by pulling out every measuring device I own and check them against each other, then against your machine fence scales.
I like this thread, interesting, entertaining and no abuse - so far! Kinda like the old days, well, if you exclude Bleeds and a coupla udders.
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Greg

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...
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wrote:
*g'day Mike, * *I have to tell you I'm laughing here. Reading the posts so far, I am *reminded of a scene on tv from ages ago, a policeman is interviewing a crowd *and walks away with ten different descriptions, ranging from black, to asian *to caucasian. Black hair, red hair, blonde. Too funny! * *Anyway, FWIW/IMNSHO/IAGAS, right or wrong, my thinking is this: * *Assumptions. *Tapering is not a factor *TS is tuned correctly, blade square to fence etc. * *Facts. *1. Charlie Groh (CG) achieves a perfect measured cut on his TS if the width *is <= 10". *2. If CG makes a cut >10", an error of up to + 1/32" is introduced. * * *Opinion. *There are two potential measurement errors here (this does not discount some *other error of course). * *1. The measurement on the TS is, in fact, accurate and there is no problem *at all. CG may *think* he has a problem with the TS when he re-measures the *cut piece with an INNACURATE tape such as I described earlier. * *2. There is an error on the TS measurement tape. * *Alternatives. * *1. Parallax error * *2. when tightening the fence for a 10" cut, CG may not be tightening it as *hard as he does for a 36" cut. The extra tightening may introduce error *(though this is unlikely if he checks the readout post tightening). * *3. the fence guide bar may be bent slightly (reaching here). * *4. Handling technique used to cut a 10" piece vice a 36" piece is different *and introduces an error. * * *For CG. * *Charlie, if I were you, I'd start by pulling out every measuring device I *own and check them against each other, then against your machine fence *scales. * *I like this thread, interesting, entertaining and no abuse - so far! Kinda *like the old days, well, if you exclude Bleeds and a coupla udders.
...LOL! It *has* been interesting, and I'm sure I'll find the demon...and will report same under the header, "Powermatic 66 Problem Goes to Mars!"...thanks, Greg. cg
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"Greg Millen" wrote in message

crowd
asian
Now coming to a silent film theatre near you: "The Keystone Kops meet the wREC Wooddorkers."
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And every single one of us knows THE answer!
Barry
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B a r r y wrote:

Hell, I don't. I'm thoroughly confused now. Which way to the shop?
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"Charlie Groh" wrote in message

IOW, when you rip to the dimensions of 3" wide X 36" long, the resulting ripped board is indeed 3" wide, from one end to the other, and X 36" on both sides?
If that is the case, you could have fooled me with the description of the problem in your original post ... my apologies.
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* *"Charlie Groh" wrote in message * *> ...the problem is *not* a tapered cut. At about 10" and below the cut *> piece will measure exactly what the scale reads (using another, *> reliable, measuring device)...at, say, 30" the cut piece will measure *> longer than the scale reads...make sense? cg * *IOW, when you rip to the dimensions of 3" wide X 36" long, the resulting *ripped board is indeed 3" wide, from one end to the other, and X 36" on both *sides?
..now were communicating! :O) * *If that is the case, you could have fooled me with the description of the *problem in your original post ... my apologies.
...no, mine. This condition is a bugbear *to* describe. But, read the whole thread, if you get a minute, and I *think* it'll come together. I haven't had time to get out there yet, but I really think the fence may be creeping. Although, I'll check on most of the comments I've had on this...good info! cg
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I missed "taper" in the original message.
I read the trouble description as the piece was 1/32' wider than expected when ripping really wide panels, and dead on when ripping narrower parts.
Obviously, I wasn't the only one! <G>
Barry
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How many wreckreites does it take to read a question and understand it?
UA100
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an infinite number, plus ONE.
dave
Unisaw A100 wrote:

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"B a r r y" wrote in message

end
It wasn't, specifically, but see below.

I, mistakenly it seems, read the problem as one where the "cut" got wider as it progressed.
<original quote> When I adjust the scale, the machine cuts perfectly up to maybe 10 inches...then my final measurement creeps up to about a 32nd at 36 inches or so.<unquote>
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I think we should all apply at NASA. <G>
Barry
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Hell, I was thinking Secretary of Education.
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