Power and phone lines for the shop - meeting the NEC

Page 3 of 4  
It has been well over 10 years ..closer to 20 I guess..since I built my shop ..and honestly I do remember I ran 4 a wire telephone line inside the 2 inch pvc line I ran to the shop (used indivifual 6 guage wire for the electrical )...
But I am curious as to why everyone said not to run the phone line inside the same pvc... Mine has been working just fine all these years.. ...
The phones Main use is honestly so my wife can call me for dinner... (used as an intercom)...
I do wish I had run a Cat 5 cable down to the shop also...BUT back then I had never heard of Cat 5 and a 300 baud dial up account was ok a 1200 baud dial up was "bitching fast"... But the wireless connection to a laptop does work...
Bob Griffiths
Bob GRiffiths
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

While the odds of a fault in the power-lines and phone-lines insulation might cause the phone wires to become "hot" (especially in the presence of water in the conduit, which happens) may be low, the NEC authorities probably think it isn't worth the risk.
The 100-amp 220V feed to our shop is in conduit, and the phone lines and alarm-system lines are 12" above it, in the same trench, in armored direct-burial cable. (As long as you are running cable, a few extra pairs for an alarm system is cheap enough, and may someday save your tools.)
--
Dennis M. O'Connor snipped-for-privacy@primenet.com




Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
What are you guys with 100 amp feeds doing in your shop?!!!!???? I can't buy enough tools to suck that much power, even if run at the same time. If my math is right, it would take 8 3 hp motors running loaded at the same time to approach loading it up. I sure don't want the electricity bill for that.
<g>

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
well lets see most shops are in the garage... a 3HP TS and a 2HP DC and the air compressor starts while they are both running and for some reason you have the lights on, the chest freezer starts, the wife opens the garage door... Thats not 100Amps not even 80Amps which is the max you should draw but the voltage drop on smaller conductors might cause issues. As another poster said "wire is cheap".
BRuce
Bob Davis wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Uh, I got your point Bruce, though its a bit exaggerated. Your example won't even be 40 amps and just for a second or two. The motors will be about 22-25 amps. Voltage drop might be a consideration over a long run, but a 100-150' is not a long run as far as voltage drop is concerned.
Heck, I find myself being argumentative and I'll get off the tone. The cost is not the issue. I ran what I thought was ample. But I'm running a hobby shop in my home in a city neighborhood. I guess that's the main difference. I just can't see spending money on something I'll never come anywhere near using.
Bob
<BRuce> wrote in message

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Well, it used to be the 100A feed to the pool, but when the backhoe guy tore through that digging the footings for the addition, we decided to put the pool on the 200A panel that fed the old side of the house (since that side of the house no longer has a kitchen), and run the 100A line out of the 600A service panel to the shop, leaving the other 200A line from the 600A panel for the addition.
Now, you might ask, why do I have a 600A service panel (5' wide, 6' tall and 16" deep, made of 3/16" steel plate) that has 200, 200 and 100 amp subfeeds coming off it ? The answer is: when I added a pool about a decade ago, I wanted enough power for the eventual addition and shop, and the pool has 6 pumps (8.5 HP total) and 1500W of lights, and I thought "600A" meant 300A on each side. D'oh !
$12K and a pole-mounted transformer upgrade later, I had underground service and enough power to run a large commercial AM radio station. Oh well. And the 600A service box is right next to the new front door. So we put a fake tree near it and a little ceramic jaguar (cat) on it.

Fortunately we only pay for what we use, but in the summer in AZ, that can be over $400.
--
Dennis M. O'Connor snipped-for-privacy@primenet.com



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
So how far away is your shop? Is it line of site? Wireless is amazing and they have wireless repeaters to amplify the signal that don't cost much. I'm placing a repeater between my (network) router and the shop and setting up a custom stand for my laptop. I work as a consultant and have to check email frequently waiting on jobs, so I might as well being working in the shop with easy access to email.
Bob

does
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The wireless (G) connection to my shop works...175 foot from the wireless access point in the house Plus I needed a signal booster (B)..because no one markets one for G yet ... ???? plus 2 Radio Shack 5 Db antenna's....on the Booster... signal varies from good to very good...without the booster or antenna I got very poor or no signal depending on how many drill bits I had left on the drill press table... LOL
Bob G.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Hypothetical...and almost impossible...but...
Rodent gets into pipe...eats thru hot wire and phone wire in same location...they touch...yer on the phone.
Have a nice week...
Trent
Follow Joan Rivers' example --- get pre-embalmed!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." wrote:

I work for a major telephone company and part of my job requires me to cover excavations that might affect our cables. I've been doing this now for over four years, covering an area encompassing the entire western third of New York state (from 20 miles east of Rochester, NY to the Pennsylvania border). Although I know these devices exist, I have never encountered any contractor using one.
-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I imagine you are working on the cables that run down the right of way. These machines are used to bury the customers drop in the yard. Around here they just use a spade and they barely get under the sod. I assume they are worried about hitting sprinkler pipes that are 4-6" down. I have one that popped up in my yard. I told the telco about it but they don't seem interested in fixing it until I run over it with the lawn mower.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Gfretwell wrote:

The cables under my area of responsibility are transcontinental and take a variety of different routes, ranging from railroad property, urban neighborhood streets, farmland and suburban developments. In many places the cables now run through residential front and back yards.
By law, anytime the ground is broken (other than agriculture) a dig report is required to be filed. If any of these reported dig sites are within a one-quarter mile buffer for our cables I get the report to make the final decision as to whether or not the activity poses a threat to our service. Depending on the time of year, I typically receive 20 to 90 reports per day. Each of these reports contains a "method of excavation" entry. Other than "invisible fence" installations, I've never received a report where a "cable plow" was used.
-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

You're a CBYD guy?
Barry
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." wrote:

It's one of the many different hats I wear, but occupies the majority of my time.
-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

wouldn't
wire if it

cover
over four

state (from

know these

Common for phone, and cable in western NC.
--
Jim in NC



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:32:48 GMT, "Bob Davis"

In this modern world...and unless you have a specific need for a corded phone...I wouldn't run a phone line at all. Just get a good cordless phone.

Yes.
But, as Bruce emitted, you should check into your LOCAL codes. The NEC doesn't need to be adapted by your local governing body...and is often edited/changed for a particular area.

Make sure you run the proper class of wire inside that pipe.
Have a nice week...
Trent
Follow Joan Rivers' example --- get pre-embalmed!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I am cordless phone poor. I own two cordless headsets, a multi-phone seimens system, a standard cordless phone - 6 in all, both 2.4 ghz and 900 mhz. None of the works reliably in the shop from a base unit in the house. The only cure for this is a phone wire to the shop.
Bob
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
OK, here's my fiew on this. In Canada the local code says it's OK to have the 'wires in the same trench, as long as they're in separate conduits. So in one trench, I put water line( good 5/8 garden hose),in 4" weeper conduit,backfilled 6 inshes,then 100A service feed,again in 4" NON weeper conductor piping,backfilled 6",then another 4" nonweeping conductor in which I run TV coax and 2 CAT5 cables,backfilled 6 inches with gravel,then good topsoil. The CAT5 wires are for phone lines and alarm system. Sure it's overkill,but the big conduits give me EASY access for 'upgrade' or repairs and everything is now in the shop IF I want it in the future... hth jay
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

which
or
Power lines should be buried at least 3 feet.
--
Jim in NC



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Bob,
The ground wire cannot be less than two wire sizes smaller than the current carrying wire - #6 = #10 ground minimum. You CAN run the tele wire in the same conduit BUT the insulation rating of the cables/wires has to match the highest rated wire e.g. 600v insulation for power wiring will require 600v insulation for the tele wire (I don't think that is readily available) and noise from the power wiring may crosstalk on the tele wire. I agree to run it separate. Also, modern telephones only require two wires, tip and ring (R&G). I would run 4 though, you may want to have two line or DSL out there some day.
Hope this helps,
Erik

up
longer
I've
panel
if
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.