Pool table legs

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Just a quick question:
Are the large dominating legs on the pool table that size for a structural reason? Would legs the size of 4x4s hold an average pool table up just as well, assuming they're braced properly?
I had plans to build a cabinet for our pool table, but it's not looking like it will get done. We need better legs now, so I was thinking 4x4 or 4x6 posts would work well.
Puckdropper
--
7 balls in one shot! Time to get out the level.

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Puckdropper wrote:

They're that way because it gives them the lateral size w/o necessarily being solid (as well as the aesthetics of course).
The load would be carried ok, the issue is _absolute_ rigidity. It would be simpler and more effective probably to use 5/4 or thicker pieces in a corner w/ the width at the top and tapered. Somewhat the same idea w/o the fanciness and easy to construct.
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dpb wrote:

And, you'll probably want/need to add a bottom to spread the load somewhat on the floor.
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The original legs had T nuts and 5" round disks that worked as levelers and weight spreaders. I'll probably use something very similar (if not the same parts--provided I can find them.)
If I went with 4x4 posts (which I have to glue up from 2x4s anyway), I could notch out for 2x4 diagonal braces between the legs. There'd be no chance of storage under the table, but it's not being used for that anyway.
Puckdropper
--
All in on the break! Did somebody move the sawhorse?

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"Puckdropper" <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in message

Plus people will lean, sit and so forth, on it. Some shots are a real stretch. Now you have a side load.
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On Oct 28, 6:37pm, Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

Probably mostly for looks. However, a regulation sized, slate-top pool table can be very heavy.
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In dropped this bit of wisdom:

Found this in my history file. Sorry about the format, just knot that the standard table slate is in the 700 - 800 pound range and go from there.
P D Q
Room & Slate Size Chart
Our plans include four standard pool table sizes. While your table may fit in the room, you must also ensure you will have unobstructed play, or at least plan for obstructions up front. This decision is crucial prior to buying your slate.
In order to use the chart below, you need to know a standard pool cue is 57" long and draw length is about 6". This means you can draw the cue stick back 6" from the cushion nose when the cue ball rests against the cushion without hitting anything behind you.
Playfield + 2x(cue length + draw length) = Room Dimension
You can shave a few inches off by not allowing for as much draw length, but you may be hitting the wall unless you use a shorter cue. Finally, remember that since the playfield is between noses of the opposing cushions, the minimum room dimension is going to be larger by 2x(cushion + rails). No provision has been made in room dimensions for chairs, tables, floor cue racks, wall racks or other items which could become obstructions.
Table Play Space Finished Slate Size Play field Size Table Size Size 7' Home 38 x 76 13'8" x 16'10" 49 x 87 45 x 83 (450 lbs) 8' Regulation 44 x 88 14'2" x 17'10" 55 x 99 51 x 95 (570 lbs) 81/2' Oversize 46 x 92 14'4" x 18'2" 57 x 103 53 x 99 (620 lbs) Regulation 9' Tournament 50 x 100 14'8" x 18'10" 61 x 111 57 x 107 (715 lbs) 10' Snooker 56 x 112 15'2" x 19'10" 67 x 123 63 x 119 (790)
For Snooker Tables: Add 2" to each Play Space Size dimension for every 1" of cue length greater than 57".
Slate - A Short History
The slate used in our pool table plans is known as "oversized" slate. This slate is larger than older, "standard" slate so it can be bolted between the slate frame and the rails. Previously, pool table slate was bolted through the sides of the table into lead anchors or turnbuckle mechanisms. You may have noticed the pretty rosettes used to conceal the bolts? Some larger (10' and 12') tables still use standard slate. But when table weight approaches one ton, weight is no longer an issue.
Use of oversized slate has two distinct advantages: First it is constrained in a sandwich by the rail and slate frame. Designed and assembled properly, pool tables using oversized slate are the superior choice for strength and reliability. Secondly, oversized slate weighs more than standard slate. This means your table is heavier! Why is this important? Because a heavier table is sturdier. This is especially important on the smaller tables. How would you like it if you bumped your hip on the table and the balls shook or moved? This is why we recommend our customers should use 1" slate on the smaller tables (7' and 8'). Of course 1" slate must be used on larger tables. 11/2" - slate is used on 10' tables, and 2" on nearly all 12' tables (snooker and carom).
We use slate on billiards tables for a variety of reasons. Try to think of some before reading on. The first is because it is abundant. Next it can be mined, honed and lapped (flatness) inexpensively. So why do we not use granite? Easy, it doesn't have the wicking (moisture absorbing) properties of slate. Honing granite is also more expensive. Slate actually wicks moisture FROM the cloth resulting in more consistent playing conditions. Even today you sometimes hear serious players complain about "slow" tables when humidity is high. In fact slate heaters are still used in a few places, mostly in Great Britain.
So what is the best slate? Ask 100 people. About 90 will say Italian. A few will say Brazilian, and 1 may say Chinese. The slate we used on our Mission pool table is 3-piece, 11/16", doweled, Pennsylvania slate. Our opinion is it probably does not matter! Here is why: Assuming the slate is flat (correctly honed) and your house is temperature controlled, wicking is not an issue. Moreover, the Italian Slate Industry (OIS), whose members enjoy a huge market share, have (to our knowledge) never issued physical test results comparing their slate to other sources. The way we see it a business should invest to grow or retain market share. We have received business inquires from Brazil and China. We reply by requesting samples and physical test reports. We have received neither from any! It is quite possible all of these products play well. Frankly, we do not have enough information to make an informed decision nor a customer recommendation. By the way, our Pennsylvania slate plays wonderfully.
Fortunately Italian slate is plentiful and proven. In our opinion, there is none better, but the other sources may be as good. In fact, proper table assembly is more important than the origin of your slate.
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Thanks PDQ. It was an interesting read. I understand a little more about what's going on with the pool table now, and see that the legs aren't for strength as much as they are stability.
Puckdropper
--
5 balls in one shot! Perhaps the level's warped?

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In Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> dropped this bit of wisdom:

That all depends upon:
1. How big the table is. Nominal 4'X8', 5'X10', 6'X14'.
2. Of what the bed is made. Wood or Slate.
3. How thick the slate is. Nominal 1.0", 1.5", 2.0".
Big tables with thick slate need the 6X6, Medium tables can get by with 4X6 and your band box size would easily get along with 4X4.
There are, probably, very few 2" beds as they went out of favor about 100 years ago. Up to 30 years ago I could still buy the big tables. Since then, I could only get the band box size. Seems every one got a new house and wanted a pool table but nobody thought to ensure their room as made big enough to take a real table.
I got my house, made sure I had a room big enough (25 feet square) and, sure enough, they are not making any BIG tables up here. Just the band boxes. Been looking ever since.
I would not even bother trying to save a wood bed.
HTH P D Q
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Many years ago, when I was a Boy Scout, our church was preparing to demolish an old parish hall to make room for a new facility. The 100 year old building was three stories with the top floor used for recreation and storage. The parish sold an old regulation-sized pool table but it had to be moved to the parking lot. Our scout master saw the opportunity for a service project and volunteered his troop to move it down two sets of stairs, each with an intermediate landing. We got a hand full of adults and a several 90 to 130 pound boys together on a Saturday morning for a "little job". It took about 1 minute to realize we had bit of more than we could chew. The table had a massive walnut body and a very thick slate top. With a great deal of grunting (and muffled swearing.....Boy Scouts) we managed to get it about 30 feet to the head of the stairs. That is when a dad, a construction worker, stopped us. We were informed there was no way we were going to put that "2,000 pound" table on the aging staircase.
The church eventually got a couple of guys to disassemble the table and rigged up a block and tackle to lower the pieces from the upstairs balcony. I still think, to this day, that the construction dad kept us from turning several of us into grease streaks.
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PDQ wrote:

4x4's are more than enough to hold up a slate. Bracing is the big issue, you will have lots of weight going sideways when someone bumps it. Your best bet would be to look at how commercial tables are constructed and find a method that suits you. The internet is loaded with info on this. The body is straight forward, basic joinery for most tables. Nothing fancy. Here are a couple of links to give you some ideas
http://www.bestbilliard.com/resources/buildtable.cfm http://www.kirchelconsulting.com/pooltable /

Either will work well. Regardless, you can use 2x's if constructed correctly, or, 10x10 tree stumps will not work well if not constructed to prevent racking and movement when bumped. I have a cheap ass table $1000 new and when they installed it, I was amazed at how under built it was. It plays good but don't bump the sucker. When I saw them put it together, I knew the first time I covered it I would be rebuilding the basic frame. It needs it now, and I keep putting it off because I don't really feel like getting too involved (LAZY)

Pool tables on the US are 3.5 x 7 (bar box) 4x8 (2 sizes) and 4.5 x 9. 5x10 and 6x12 are snooker tables found mainly in Europe and Canada.
A "regulation" table is twice as long as it is wide. 4 1/2 x9 is the normal pro tournament size. Most league tournaments in Vegas are played on 3 1/2 x 7' tables.

Many cheap home tables are 1/2" slate (mine). If the table is shabbily made (mine), as in 2x4 with minimum bracing, it is probably 1/2" slate. 1" slate is common in better new tables, and thicker stuff is usually found in high end and antique tables.

band box size would easily get along with 4X4.
Bar box is what I think you mean. You can look at all sorts of big and small tables with skinny legs, French cabriole legs are common. Tables with giant fat legs could be 3/4 boards made into a box.

Up to 30 years ago I could still buy the big tables. Since then, I could only get the band box size.
7' to 9' tables can be bought any where tables are sold in the US. The larger Snooker tables not so much. Decent tables have 1" slate, high end (expensive) have thicker stuff. Bar tables are generally 7' and one piece slate. Home tables are normally 3 piece slate.
Seems every one got a new house and wanted a pool table but nobody thought to ensure their room as made big enough to take a real table.

they are not making any BIG tables up here. Just the band boxes. Been looking ever since. I would not even bother trying to save a wood bed.
Where is "up here?" and what is a band box? I've never heard the term before?
--
Jack
Got Change: The Individual =======> The Collective!
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In dropped this bit of wisdom: <BIG SNIP>

"Up Here" -- Kanukistan.
"Band Box" usually refers to some item whgich is too small to permit enjoyable usage.
As I see it, no table under nominal 5'X10' is big enough to permit enjoyable useage.
Did you ever notice that the Yankees shortened the cues to go along with the smaller tables and even usurped the name "Billiards" to refer to the game of "9Ball"?
My intro to pool was billiards and snooker on the big 14 foot tables. The "Band Box" did not appear until small bars tried to permit some sporting by getting sub-standard sized tables with coin machines incorporated. The 4'X8' tables were reserved for "Bang Ball" aka "Rotation", "Spots&Stripes", "9Ball" and "Golf". Snooker and Pocket Billiards were concidered "The only proper pool games". I only ever played true Billiards (no pockets in the table) once. This is the game that illustrates true "Cuemanship".
P D Q
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"PDQ" wrote:
===================================="Up Here" -- Kanukistan.
"Band Box" usually refers to some item whgich is too small to permit enjoyable usage.
As I see it, no table under nominal 5'X10' is big enough to permit enjoyable useage.
Did you ever notice that the Yankees shortened the cues to go along with the smaller tables and even usurped the name "Billiards" to refer to the game of "9Ball"?
My intro to pool was billiards and snooker on the big 14 foot tables. The "Band Box" did not appear until small bars tried to permit some sporting by getting sub-standard sized tables with coin machines incorporated. The 4'X8' tables were reserved for "Bang Ball" aka "Rotation", "Spots&Stripes", "9Ball" and "Golf". Snooker and Pocket Billiards were concidered "The only proper pool games". I only ever played true Billiards (no pockets in the table) once. This is the game that illustrates true "Cuemanship". ================================ My dad was a money player in his youth.
Spent many hours with him, bent over the green felt with a cue in my hand, learning either 3 cushion billiards or either straight pool or cribbage (Any 2 balls that added up to 15) on a pool table.
Snooker came later.
Up until I was at least 16, he would spot me 40 in a 50 ball game of straight, then whip by butt by running the table in 2-3 turns.
Finally beat him when he started wearing glasses and his sharp eyesight was so sharp any more.
He used to refer to the "Bang Ball" games above as "Slop" games, IOW, no skill required.
Lew
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In dropped this bit of wisdom:

Seems we spent a similar childhood. I also ken how the eyes betray one with age. WSould that I/we were 20 again.
P D Q
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"PDQ" wrote: ------------------------------------------------ Seems we spent a similar childhood. I also ken how the eyes betray one with age. WSould that I/we were 20 again. ---------------------------------------------- Cleaned out mom's place last year and found my dad's 20 OZ cue hanging by a tip clamp in the closet.
Hadn't been used since 1959 or maybe even earlier.
Mom told me she bought that cue from a local doctor for $3 and gave it to my dad about 1938-1940 time frame.
Found a home for it.
My shooting days are long gone.
Could not handle the frustration of not being able to do what I once did with ease.
Time moves on.
Lew
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PDQ wrote:

Just a comment but did you ever see a movie called "The Color of Money", the sequel of sorts to "The Hustler"? If you haven't you might want to give it a watch (if you haven't seen "The Hustler" you might enjoy that one too)--when you have you'll know what reminded me of it.

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"J. Clarke" wrote:

(Paul Newman and Tom Cruise)
, the

(Jackie Gleason and Paul Newman)
Lew
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On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 00:06:38 -0400, "J. Clarke"

Two dated, but very good movies. The Color of Money is a continuation of the movie The Hustler where Fast Eddie Felson (Paul Newman) finally wins against Minnesota fats, (Jackie Gleason). Fast Eddie then goes into self exile. The Color of Money is where Fast Eddie starts playing pool again a number of years later.
One really needs to see both movies to get a sense of the story.
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wrote:

The sequel was diminished by Cruise.
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wrote:

No unexpected. While some of his action movies have been passable, I have yet to see him excel with serious drama.
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