plans for acoustic computer enclosure?

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-MIKE- wrote:

Roland has one that is expandable to 40 channels, for a Roland price. For under 400 bucks you can get a 16 channel Tascom.
Googling "USB multitrack audio" gets 110,000 hits, and most of them point to a device of one sort or another, most of which have mor than two channels.

And there was a time when if you asked them if they used Firewire they'd say "fire_WHAT_?".
Time marches on.
In any case, everybody does't need the same equipment as a Nashville producer.

So what? All that either of them does is move bits across a wire. USB2 has enough real-world bandwidth to carry more than 1000 192kb streams. There's nothing about Firewire bits that makes them sound different from USB bits, although I'm sure that the same sucker^H^H^H^H^H^Haudiophiles who buy Monster speaker cables for a ludicrous price will say otherwise.
With Apple dumping Firewire on the latest iBook the handwriting is on the wall.
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On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 12:03:11 -0400, "J. Clarke"

USB also has Isochronous transfers, so that's not an issue. Firewire is a little more flexible though. Any device can be a "master" and talk to any other. USB is a bit more rigid. USB started out brain-dead but had a miraculous recovery. It took time to notice. ;-)

The term is "Audiophools".

Apple misplayed that card from day one.
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J. Clarke wrote:

With current gear for the home recordist it has become, for all practical purposes, a moot point ... and many are capable of both USB2 and Firewire operation. Mark Of The Unicorn (MOTU) sells some pretty good gear for the home recordist with that in mind, as well as TasCam, as you mentioned.
I would worry more about computer processor power, as audio glitches, that really pop up (no pun intended) when a single processor comes close to maximum utilization, are the achilles heel of home recording for most.
Hard to beat a minimum of dual processors and multi-threaded software ...
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Swingman wrote:

If MOTU is doing it successfully, then it will catch on and succeed.
They are smart to take an already successful, cornerstone, interface, and add the new technology to it. People will trust it more than starting from scratch with a completely new box.
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-MIKE-

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J. Clarke wrote:

So, you don't have a link, then. :-)

And no one is using the iBook to record 24 tracks, either.... successfully.
You're giving me theory, and I'm giving you real experience.
The pissing contests is this newsgroup crack me up. You guys get on a tangent about a semantic, and just won't let go.
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-MIKE- wrote:

Geez, how lazy can you get? http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1W1ACGW_enUS315US315&q=usb+multitrack+audio&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g1 .

So you're saying that a Firewire iBook can't record 24 tracks?

Gee, quite accomodating of you to go out and get experience with devices of which at 9 PM last night you were completely unaware.

You're the one who turned it into a pissing contest by going into denial when someone suggested that you might be mistaken, and then going off on a tangent about "Nashville producers" as if some guy who can't afford a store bought cabinet is going to be equipping a commercial production studio.
What "semantic" is this? You asserted that there were no USB multitrack audio devices on the market. That didn't fit in with my recollection so I checked and found that there were indeed many such devices.
I assumed since you are topping it the expert that giving you the keywords I used would be enough for you with your greater expertise to check into this for yourself rather than having to be spoon fed links, but since you seem to be unable to research such matters for yourself, try
http://www.sonarvstudio.com/700/vs-700r.php http://www.tascam.com/products/m-164uf ;9,9,3744,16.html http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/828mkII /
All of those are USB audio devices. All of them purport to be able to record more than the 8 tracks that you claim, with one of them going over 40 with an expansion add-in. Are you saying that the manufacturers are lying? If not then what are you saying?
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J. Clarke wrote:

Nope, didn't say that. No one would... or would for very long. They would get sick, very quickly, of squinting at the little 13" screen, then go to an external monitor, which shares the ram for video, and the latency or inability to use a big enough screen would drive them nuts.

I didn't assert that there were none. I believe I wrote, "But I may be wrong. The most I've seen is 8 channels, but I wouldn't trust it for anything I care about."
That doesn't strike me as, "going into denial."
You wrote, "Googling "USB multitrack audio reveals a number of products. Do they not work well?"
I tried to tell you they didn't work well and gave an example that the real experts weren't using them.

Hmm, that's all you had to do. :-)

You're the one making this a pissing contest. Asking me if I'm saying they are lying? I answered to my knowledge at the time. I said everything I said in a tone of discussion, you're the one being condescending about it.
The technology has advanced and I am behind in my knowledge of of stuff apparently on the cutting edge.
What I *do know* is what I very often see in studios and hear from the guys using the stuff for a living. All I hear about is problems with USB because of it sharing everything else connected to it and latency and dropouts and sync problems and on and on.
So maybe if I had said, "For all intents and purposes, USB has not been able to handle multi track audio, in the real world, professional setting, and the pros prefer Firewire because of its tested speed and reliability," all this could've been avoided.
My guess is that the MOTU would be the only one trustworthy right now, because they have such a good track record, but their involvement will help the others by lending credence to the technology, simply because "if MOTU is doing it, it must be alright."
--

-MIKE-

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"-MIKE-" wrote

Tell me about it. I was once involved in a vocational music program at a local college. I designed and taught course that were cutting edge in terms of technology, equipment knowldge, recording theory etc. Then I moved onto other things.
I went back ten years later and I was an idiot. I didn't know half the stuff there. Although I still retain the basics, I have NO experience with digital recording, etc.
But I still have a small voice only studio and can do good work. But even my little studio has a mixer in it that is much smalle, much cheaper and WAY quieter than I used to use.
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Lee Michaels wrote:

I still keep a finger (little)in it(still partners in a working studio, but no longer have anything to do with the day-to-day operation for the past six or seven years).
I am occasionally enticed/arm twisted back to do engineering/producing on a small project by project basis, but even turn most of that down these days. The biggest reason given for even being approached is that it seems there is a dearth of experience in actually getting a world class project out the door these days.
Other than admittedly old ears at this point, my problem with the newbies is that I simply can NOT abide ProTools in any way, shape, or form, and that is ALL most places use these days.
IME, ProTools has done to music what McDonald's did to hamburgers.
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-MIKE- wrote:

However your response demonstrated a lack of familiarity the the products in question, leaving one to wonder on what basis you made your assertion.

And why were you unable to find those products? Are you lazy, or just not the expert you pretend to be?

Yes, you answered from your knowledge rather than taking 30 seconds to actually enter the keywords you were given into Google and looking at the first page of resulting hits.

Finally you get to something other than denial. One of the manufacturers states that their USB device should be attached to a dedicated port rather than hub for the reasons you mention.

Roland has a poor track record?
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J. Clarke wrote:

More condescension. More things I didn't say.
I never claimed to be an expert. I spoke to the experience of the experts I know and work with regularly.

They didn't use hubs.

More words in my mouth, huh?
Complimenting one manufacturer isn't an implicit insult on another. Can you grasp that concept, Skippy? (a little condescension for you, since you seem to be unable to communicate without it.)
MOTU was and is pretty much the standard/benchmark for multi-track i/o's.
Roland does some wonderful things, but they certainly have not been the go-to name and essentially synonymous with digital audio interface for the professional, like MOTU.
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-MIKE-

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-MIKE- wrote:

You examined the wiring on their motherboards? Or are you simply not aware that many systems have internal hubs that are not necessarily marked as such?

"MOTU would be the only one trustworthy" does not appear to be in any way ambiguous. .

Either MOTU is or is not "the only one trustworthy".

I see. I would have expected professional equipment to be more expensive. Oh, well, live and learn.
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J. Clarke wrote:

Most are, to the best of my knowledge.
Again, one reason why professionals use Firewire. You plug it in and it works.
According to you, with all these wonderful USB multitrack interfaces, one has to open up their computer to examine the motherboard to determine if it'll work properly.
Wow, that sounds sounds trustworthy.
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-MIKE-

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On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 19:04:27 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Considering the effort the OP is putting into this and the equipment he has, I'm wondering why he hasn't converted some clothes closet into a cold room.
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Christopher Glaeser wrote:

You didn't specify the usage of the machine before, now I know why you need all that local.
But the box can still be located elsewhere, there are IP based remote solutions, have you researched the option? Even extending the keyboard, video and mouse cables may allow you to get it around a corner or something to cut the noise.
Building a box that will absorb sound and provide the cooling requirements for a computer like that is non-trivial.
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Is most of this noise transmitted via vibration or is it airborne? IOW.. can you feel the case vibrate?
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Robatoy wrote:

I don't know if we're still referring to studio use, but it's mostly the fan and drive noise, not vibration, that bug people.
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-MIKE-

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Correct. The problem is also cumulative. The 24 port gigabit switch is noticable but not really annoying, the NAS is noticable but not annoying, the video editing station is somewhat loud but tolerable, etc, etc, but with everything running, it's an annoying wind tunnel. My goal is to tackle the loudest PC first, and then perhaps add more acoustic enclosures as needed.
Best, Christopher
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Vibration is relatively low. There is some noise due to the six drives, but most of the noise is due to all the fans (fans for dual cpu chips, fan for hign-end graphics card, and multiple fans for power and enclosure).
A Kell System enclosure would be ideal, but they are pricey (though I'm sure they are worth it). I expect a reasonable design would use 1/2" or 3/4" birch plywood lined with carpeting and/or sound proofing material. One key feature is the air flow. Needs to cool 600-800 watts, yet baffle the noise inside the enclosure. Several superquiete 120mm fans could be used to exchange the air. Another feature is the door. Needs to provide easy access, but also a seal to minimize noise.
I've seen plans on the net to build the computer case out of wood. I have no desire to do that. I want the ability to swap in a new computer every couple of years, but keep the acoustic enclosure.
Best, Christopher
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Christopher Glaeser wrote:

Have you considered putting the whole tower into a dorm type refrigerator modified for cable exits?
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Jack Novak
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