Ping Robert

Re: Your comments on Leon's sewing cabinet thread....

he loved it. Like me, he had been rolling out and leaving it to dry, or ro lling out and back brushing. Ouch. He loved the final finish, but he went uptown on this idea and bought these because he could clean them and reuse them. Crap... I thought I was cheap!
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Shur-Line-7-1-2-in-Premium-Teflon-Painter-Pad-39 55106/202080282
I never thought to consider a "skim" or "trowel" type application (volume c overage application), for large surfaces.
I'm anticipating having problems spraying my large table top, shellac first coat. Might this painter's pad, for my shellac (and subsequent?) applica tion, work well for my large flat-surface application? Might the pad work just as well for a shellac application, as did for your mentioned poly app lication (not just for painting purposes)?
If this painter's pad will work, that way, then I can apply the first coat (and subsequent coats, maybe) inside the shop, rather than hauling this hea vy table top outdoors (for the otherwise planned spraying).
I suppose I can try it (test piece, first) and report any feedback, as per shellac application.
Thanks. Sonny
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On Tuesday, August 25, 2015 at 8:14:56 AM UTC-5, Sonny wrote:

And another practice application on the underside of the table top, before attempting the top surface application.
Sonny
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Sonny wrote:

Good plan. IIRC, your table is sizeable; I'd think the biggest problem with a pad and shellac would be the shellac drying to the point where the pad drags; i.e., tough to keep a wet edge. Still not sure why you want a shellac coat when you are going to topcoat it with lacquer...
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Sonny wrote:

Always test! IIRC, you are pretty far into this project and you don't need a set back.
On Tuesday, August 25, 2015 at 10:54:37 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:

ith


Once again, I agree with dadiOH. These pads will spread shellac just fine and and leave a great coat, although I must say I have never used them for more than sanding sealer. I agree with his comments, though. If you work fast and the weather isn't too hot where you are and you are applying in a room with no air movement you will be fine. Make sure you check the notes about how long you can use the pads, though.
I also agree with the comment on using shellac under lacquer. Lacquer make s a dandy prime/first coat and they even sell lacquer based clear wood prim ers. There are a lot of myths about prime/first/base coats, but for raw wo od, most of the time the top coat you use works just fine for a first coat. I never prime raw wood if I am putting on a clear coat, and only use the final finish as my choice for all coats. I prime if the wood is dirty, ext remely porous, might have its surface contaminated with chemicals, or if I am staining/dying.
Under good conditions, if you work fast I'll bet the pads work fine. I wou ld thin the shellac to about 1 1/2 lb cut though, maybe thinner (I am think ing the viscosity of water), so I could really get that stuff on quickly an d easily. Remember, since shellac resolvates, you could put on 1/2 cut if you wanted and simply put on another coat or two and wind up with the same end product thickness.
Robert
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On Tuesday, August 25, 2015 at 10:54:37 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:

And this is exactly the kind of comment that makes me think and rethink, no t only for this project, but comparatively of my past projects.
I've built nice projects in the past, out of salvaged lumber mostly, but I' ve never really worked to a high end degree. Many of my past projects wer e/are more for utility, IMO, not higher end. I want this project to be be tter than my past workings.
In the past, I wasn't too concerned with the finish quality on my past piec es, only that they were coated with a reasonable finish for their use. I had setteld with finishing many of them with Spar urethane (long ago) and m ore recently with Varethane floor finish. The lacquer, I've been spraying, was used more for when I have been refinishing upholstered pieces and a fe w of my more recent projects. I have the sense that those past finishes w ere "good enough". I want the finish on this table to be better than that, better than my past efforts and most appropriate to/for the table, itself.
I assumed the shellac would be the best application to pop the grain. With your pointed comment, think I can now understand the point of your insist ing on considering an alternative, that any clear coat can do the same. M y initial idea of topcoating with the lacquer, that I have been using for s everal years, is now, also, in question. This lacquer may not be the bett er lacquer for dining table tops. Robert's recommendation of the SW's mor e durable lacquer or poly seems to be the better option, for the most durab le topcoat.
I had called SW and asked about those products' availability, at their stor e, but I need to go speak to the guys, to narrow down my choice of which pr oduct to use, then buy the choice.
I had been concerend with the shellac drying too fast, before I could finis h coating the whole table surface, hence using the paint pads for faster ap plication. I will likely scratch the shellac use and apply only one finis h, either the SW Hi-Bild Pre-Cat lacquer or the poly.... I'm leaning toward the poly. I'm assuming either of these should pop the grain just as well as the shellac would. I am assuming the poly won't dry as fast as the lac quer.
OT: Somewhat frustrating, family reunion this Saturday and out-of-state fa mily members are in town, so I've been busy entertaining, going out to eat, etc. (taking time from my shop work); Also, niece's son and I are buildin g, for him, a forge (he wants to try some blacksmithing), so that's taking up my time, lately. Today I'm in the shop, the whole day to myself.
It's been hot and muggy the past month. Cold front has come through, yeste rday, so it's cool, this morning, and humidity is low.... feels great outdo ors, for a change!
Thanks Robert, Mike, Leon, Lew. I'm paying attention to your comments, al so.
Sonny
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Update: Went to SW and inquired about the products, Hi-Bild lacquer and S her-Wood Poly.
The lacquer dries fast, gallon cans available. To be sprayed, only.
They didn't have the Sher-Wood poly in stock. The guy recommended Wood Cl assics Poly Varnish, as a Sher-Wood poly substitute, but that the Wood Clas sics would yellow, to some extent, over time. He also said the Sher-Wood p oly is a two part application (primer coat, then top coat) and comes in 5 g allons, only.
I'm back to square one. Reconsidering 1) Applying shellac and topcoating with my familiar Varathane Floor Finish OR 2) Applying the Varathane only .... test some applications to see the results, before committing to this.
Sonny
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On Wednesday, August 26, 2015 at 11:43:54 AM UTC-5, Sonny wrote:

Sher-Wood Poly.

Classics Poly Varnish, as a Sher-Wood poly substitute, but that the Wood Cl assics would yellow, to some extent, over time. He also said the Sher-Wood poly is a two part application (primer coat, then top coat) and comes in 5 gallons, only.

g with my familiar Varathane Floor Finish OR 2) Applying the Varathane on ly.... test some applications to see the results, before committing to this .

If you are wanting a product that won't yellow or amber at all over time, t hen you will need to switch to an acrylic product. All of the oil/solvent based stuff, even the catalyzed, will yellow after a time. There are plent y of them out there, that's for sure. SW, Benjamin Moore, ML Cambell, etc. , all have their version. To my knowledge, all the "professional grade" no n yellowing acrylics are spray only. Don't be confused by the water borne finishes sold in the home improvement stores.
Sonny... I just feel like you are so close to getting this done! I have no doubt you have the skills and talent, but it seems the finishing part is w earing you down. I completely understand, believe me.
Since we are chatting about this, I would offer you yet another opinion. I like SW because they have a lot of products I like. But my job is to make a living at this stuff, and if they don't have exactly what I go straight over to another vendor. I live in city that has many paint stores with a l ot of different product until I get what I want. At this point in time, mo st of the finishes apply about the same in actual practice, and their perfo rmance is similar as well.
I go to SW first, Benjamin Moore second, then an industrial coatings store last. Unless I am for quick and inexpensive finish, I stay out of HD or Lo we's. Even though Lowe's sells Varathane products, which used to be a king among coatings (especially their varnish lines) I don't think they sell th e same stuff at Lowe's we buy in the paint store. Although it seems like i t would be the opposite, if you follow the manufacturer's instructions they are easier to apply and certainly give better results than the home improv ement store products.
Since you are so far into and have done so much work on your actual project , it would be a shame to not get exactly what you want as a finish. I unde rstand that is isn't me in the project, but if it was I would do a bit of i nternet research and get my coffee mug and hit the road. I only talk to th e managers of the stores as they have had the most training and are most li kely to have the best product knowledge.
I don't know that I could actually help at this point, but ask away and I w ill be glad to take a crack at any questions.
Robert
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On Thursday, August 27, 2015 at 2:40:43 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

ct, it would be a shame to not get exactly what you want as a finish. I un derstand that is isn't me in the project, but if it was I would do a bit of internet research and get my coffee mug and hit the road. I only talk to the managers of the stores as they have had the most training and are most likely to have the best product knowledge.

will be glad to take a crack at any questions.

Thanks Robert. I've been anxious to get the finishing done, so I've rushed myself. Overnight, I've reconsidered my previous ideas. Today, I'll ask around as to some of the pro floor finishers, as to what they use, maybe ev en get estimates for their finishing the table top for me.
I won't complete this job by Saturday, so I might as well take a little mor e time and do it right. Maybe the floor finishers have/use the SW poly o r Hi-Bild, so I won't have to buy the 5 gallons. I'll ask them to critiqu e my prep, also, if that'll help them with their prospective finishing.
I'd still like to try spraying shellac on the bottom side, just to see how I do with it and my overall technique on large abnormal pieces.
Sonny
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On Thursday, August 27, 2015 at 7:27:47 AM UTC-5, Sonny wrote:

ed myself. Overnight, I've reconsidered my previous ideas. Today, I'll as k around as to some of the pro floor finishers, as to what they use, maybe even get estimates for their finishing the table top for me.

ore time and do it right. Maybe the floor finishers have/use the SW poly or Hi-Bild, so I won't have to buy the 5 gallons. I'll ask them to criti que my prep, also, if that'll help them with their prospective finishing.

w I do with it and my overall technique on large abnormal pieces.

That sounds like an excellent plan. Most floor finishers use acrylics thes e days as opposed to solvent based, and the good stuff is remarkably hard a nd doesn't yellow.
I would bet that if you shellac that bottom you will be surprised at how we ll it will go. Plan it all out, allow enough time, use the proper applicat ion techniques and no doubt it will go well.
Hope you let us know your decisions and how it turns out.
Robert
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Sonny wrote:

I have no compressor so the only spraying I do is with rattle cans or Preval and I only use those on smallish things. For larger things (furniture) I use Deft's semi-gloss brushing lacquer because it builds well and sands so easily.
Now, I know there are various lacquers and that some have additives to make them harder but lacking spray equipment I am locked into the Deft. My experience is that it does not pop/color quite as much as oil poly, tung or BLO so I have at times used oil to pop and top coated that (when dry) with lacquer. (In my days as a portrait photographer, I often used washes of thinned oil paint to enhance photos. The paint was immediately top coated with lacquer, nary a problem but the paint film was very, very thin.)
Deft lacquer is not as hard/scratch resistant as oil poly but it is infinitely easier to apply and repair. You pays your money and takes your choice. I'd not hesitate to use either, both have admirable attributes.

Wot, you are having fun when you could be working?? Tsk, tsk :)
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Get a compressor, a good sized one. Having compressed air available opens up a whole new world, and not just for spraying.

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"Sonny" wrote:
I suppose I can try it (test piece, first) and report any feedback, as per shellac application. ---------------------------------------------- SFWIW, I solved the "dragging" problem by using 1/2 LB cut
You use some extra alcohol, but It Worked For Me.
Lew
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