Just saw this on Lumberjocks. The guy claims that the arbor doesn't return to the same spot after a force is applied from the side. A reason for concern in my opinion. Although a side force isn't typical during normal use I would still be concerned.
On Thursday, July 4, 2013 10:45:01 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@garagewoodworks.com wrot e:
n to the same spot after a force is applied from the side. A reason for con cern in my opinion. Although a side force isn't typical during normal use I would still be concerned.
The max range of movement is .04". The "at rest" displacement (not returni ng to the same spot) is what, 5% of that max range? I think that is a nomi nal displacement. There will be no similar sideways force, during use, to recreate that max displacement and, if there was any sideways force, it wou ld likely be much lees than what the guy applied and it would be, at least, partially countered by the spinning of the blade (gyroscopic stability).
Might want to test his caliper, also, to make sure there's no "play" in it, also.
Sonny
Sonny
ote:
urn to the same spot after a force is applied from the side. A reason for c oncern in my opinion. Although a side force isn't typical during normal use I would still be concerned.
ning to the same spot) is what, 5% of that max range?
You make the assumption that the "at rest" displacement is proportional to the max displacement. It might not be. It's hard to tell from the video.
Normal for a Sawstop or normal for any saw? I haven't checked but I'm fair ly certain I won't see this "jelly-like" sideways motion on my Powermatic.
displacement and, if there was any sideways force, it would likely be much lees than what the guy applied and it would be, at least, partially counte red by the spinning of the blade (gyroscopic stability).
Maybe. But the force excerpted at the edge of the blade will be amplified at the arbor. Less force will be required to create the same displacement i n the non-spinning blade. How much of this will be countered by gyroscopic stability? I don't know.
I still think it's reason for concern. The sideways forces exerted during cove cutting might cause problems.?.
On 7/5/2013 9:17 AM, snipped-for-privacy@garagewoodworks.com wrote: ...
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Only place I can think of it would seem potential a problem and there I still wouldn't expect it to be an actual issue that one would ever notice it.
Looks to me like going out of way to try to find a problem that (probably) isn't...
Agreed.
Also would be interested to see how much the belts play in that. I wonder if just starting it up returns it to normal.
The only place I see a sideways load is while coving. I don't sand with my saw...
No. It's a valid concern raised by the owner in the video and one that would require more data before a conclusion of "(probably) isn't" could be reached.
Brian have you taken your medication lately?
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I'd contend it's not a problem until the owner can show a real effect in normal usage (which hasn't done and afaik no other SS owner has raised it as an operational fault--certainly if it were a fundamental design flaw there are enough of them out there and have been for long enough it would have surfaced if so).
"No harm, no foul..."
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"would have surfaced if so"
Maybe. Or maybe some owners wrongfully attribute the effects of the problem to something else.
On 7/5/2013 10:23 AM, snipped-for-privacy@garagewoodworks.com wrote: ...
Can you even find a history of complaints that could possibly be caused by the fault, root cause identified or not????
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Give it a rest.
I'm bringing this to the attention of Leon who owns this saw (see the Ping Leon in the subject).
You chose to debate me. If this is too technical for you and you want it to end then YOU give it a rest.
ote: ... >> Looks to me like going out of way to try to find a problem that >> (probably) isn't... > > No. It's a valid concern raised by the owner in the video and one > that would require more data before a conclusion of "( probably) > isn't" could be reached. ... I'd contend it's not a problem unt il the owner can show a real effect in normal usage (which hasn't done and afaik no other SS owner has raised it as an operational fault--certainly if it were a fundamental design flaw there are enough of them out there and h ave been for long enough it would have surfaced if so). "No harm, no foul.. ." ==
And you can bet the other saw manufacturers have combed the SawStop for def ects or any other abnormalities, also.
Sonny
wrote: ... >> Looks to me like going out of way to try to find a problem th at >> (probably) isn't... > > No. It's a valid concern raised by the owner in the video and one > that would require more data before a conclusion of "(probably) > isn't" could be reached. ... I'd contend it's not a problem u ntil the owner can show a real effect in normal usage (which hasn't done an d afaik no other SS owner has raised it as an operational fault--certainly if it were a fundamental design flaw there are enough of them out there and have been for long enough it would have surfaced if so). "No harm, no foul ..." ==
efects or any other abnormalities, also.
I'd rather weight the data present and look for more than continue to make assumptions. But that's the scientist in me.
cement (not returning to the same spot) is what, 5% of that max range?
You make the assumption that the "at rest" displacement is proportional to the max displacement.
No, it is not proportional. I pointed out the estimated % displacement the guy was showing for his numbers. If he had applied more pressure, the est imated % at rest dislacement would be less. Part of his validating that hi s evaluations are completly trustworthy, also, depends on his validating th at his caliper is accurate.
No matter, in either case, I suspect both his SawStop and caliper are worki ng normally, reasonably, within their limits and/or tolerances.
Sonny
On 7/5/2013 11:00 AM, snipped-for-privacy@garagewoodworks.com wrote: ...
More like you're making the assumptions on the lack of any substantive data... :(
Hmmm. I had to go back and read my comments.
I think I made my point very clear:
"It's a valid concern raised by the owner in the video and one that would require more data before a conclusion...could be reached."
Hey wait a sec, I thought you wanted this debate to "rest"?
And because it's not proportional, less force applied could achieve the same amount or close to the same amount of rest displacement as the larger force.
Again, more data is needed and the concern is warranted.
Assumption.
And then they got some loony to make a video raising doubt in the minds of others. Nice subversive marketing.
Lets get to the facts. If you take a SawStop home in the back of a Toyota, the accelerator will suddenly take over and make you car go very fast and crash. Properly set up and anchored, the SawStop can prevent your Audi from accelerating and crashing through the back of the garage.
I am not real familiar with that particular SawStop, It is the Pro/hybrid version, basically the bottom end unit. Mine is the ICS, Industrial cabinet saw.
I am wondering why SawStop has not been contacted. There are bolts that can be loosened and if they are loosened this will happen. Most any saw will be sloppy if every thing is not tight. The whole assembly is moving, I even see the brake moving. His arbor is not the moving by it self, it is the whole carriage. Basically what is moving is the adjustment to make takes care of setting to keep the blade parallel to the miter slot when the blade is tilted. Older TS,s uses shims between the table top and the cabinet. The SawStop and perhaps even yours use a different method for this adjustment. It is basically how the Euro style saws are adjusted.
I kind'a agree, another one of those areas, like discoloration in the table top is probably not going to affect performance. He is probably being too AR and or not understanding why the Malibu cant keep up with the Corvette. ;~) He has a contractors saw wrapped in a cabinet.
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