Ping Leon - Sawstop problem?

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Just saw this on Lumberjocks. The guy claims that the arbor doesn't return to the same spot after a force is applied from the side. A reason for concern in my opinion. Although a side force isn't typical during normal use I would still be concerned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4PtFGuCqnk&feature=em-upload_owner

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/51191
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On Thursday, July 4, 2013 10:45:01 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@garagewoodworks.com wrot e:

cern in my opinion. Although a side force isn't typical during normal use I would still be concerned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4PtFGuCqnk&fea
ture=em-upload_owner http://lumberjocks.com/topics/51191
The max range of movement is .04". The "at rest" displacement (not returni ng to the same spot) is what, 5% of that max range? I think that is a nomi nal displacement. There will be no similar sideways force, during use, to recreate that max displacement and, if there was any sideways force, it wou ld likely be much lees than what the guy applied and it would be, at least, partially countered by the spinning of the blade (gyroscopic stability).
Might want to test his caliper, also, to make sure there's no "play" in it, also.
Sonny
Sonny
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On Friday, July 5, 2013 8:58:09 AM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:

oncern in my opinion. Although a side force isn't typical during normal use I would still be concerned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4PtFGuCqnk&f
eature=em-upload_owner http://lumberjocks.com/topics/51191

You make the assumption that the "at rest" displacement is proportional to the max displacement. It might not be. It's hard to tell from the video.

Normal for a Sawstop or normal for any saw? I haven't checked but I'm fair ly certain I won't see this "jelly-like" sideways motion on my Powermatic.

lees than what the guy applied and it would be, at least, partially counte red by the spinning of the blade (gyroscopic stability).

Maybe. But the force excerpted at the edge of the blade will be amplified at the arbor. Less force will be required to create the same displacement i n the non-spinning blade. How much of this will be countered by gyroscopic stability? I don't know.
I still think it's reason for concern. The sideways forces exerted during cove cutting might cause problems.?.

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On 7/5/2013 9:17 AM, snipped-for-privacy@garagewoodworks.com wrote: ...

Only place I can think of it would seem potential a problem and there I still wouldn't expect it to be an actual issue that one would ever notice it.
Looks to me like going out of way to try to find a problem that (probably) isn't...
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On 7/5/2013 10:39 AM, dpb wrote:

Agreed.
Also would be interested to see how much the belts play in that. I wonder if just starting it up returns it to normal.
The only place I see a sideways load is while coving. I don't sand with my saw...
--
Jeff

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On Friday, July 5, 2013 10:39:24 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:

No. It's a valid concern raised by the owner in the video and one that would require more data before a conclusion of "(probably) isn't" could be reached.

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On 7/5/2013 10:49 AM, snipped-for-privacy@garagewoodworks.com wrote:

--
Jeff

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On 7/5/2013 9:49 AM, snipped-for-privacy@garagewoodworks.com wrote:

I'd contend it's not a problem until the owner can show a real effect in normal usage (which hasn't done and afaik no other SS owner has raised it as an operational fault--certainly if it were a fundamental design flaw there are enough of them out there and have been for long enough it would have surfaced if so).
"No harm, no foul..."
=
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On Friday, July 5, 2013 11:05:55 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:

"would have surfaced if so"
Maybe. Or maybe some owners wrongfully attribute the effects of the problem to something else.

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On 7/5/2013 10:23 AM, snipped-for-privacy@garagewoodworks.com wrote: ...

Can you even find a history of complaints that could possibly be caused by the fault, root cause identified or not????
<I thought not>...
Give it a rest.
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On Friday, July 5, 2013 11:31:25 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:

I'm bringing this to the attention of Leon who owns this saw (see the Ping Leon in the subject).
You chose to debate me. If this is too technical for you and you want it to end then YOU give it a rest.

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On 7/5/2013 10:41 AM, snipped-for-privacy@garagewoodworks.com wrote:

I do not own this saw, I have the ICS. It would be like comparing your saw to the PM Artisan.
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On Friday, July 5, 2013 10:05:55 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:

>> (probably) isn't... > > No. It's a valid concern raised by the owner in the video and one > that would require more data before a conclusion of "( probably) > isn't" could be reached. ... I'd contend it's not a problem unt il the owner can show a real effect in normal usage (which hasn't done and afaik no other SS owner has raised it as an operational fault--certainly if it were a fundamental design flaw there are enough of them out there and h ave been for long enough it would have surfaced if so). "No harm, no foul.. ." = And you can bet the other saw manufacturers have combed the SawStop for def ects or any other abnormalities, also.
Sonny
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On Friday, July 5, 2013 11:55:51 AM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:

at >> (probably) isn't... > > No. It's a valid concern raised by the owner in the video and one > that would require more data before a conclusion of "(probably) > isn't" could be reached. ... I'd contend it's not a problem u ntil the owner can show a real effect in normal usage (which hasn't done an d afaik no other SS owner has raised it as an operational fault--certainly if it were a fundamental design flaw there are enough of them out there and have been for long enough it would have surfaced if so). "No harm, no foul ..." =>

I'd rather weight the data present and look for more than continue to make assumptions. But that's the scientist in me.

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On 7/5/2013 11:00 AM, snipped-for-privacy@garagewoodworks.com wrote: ...

More like you're making the assumptions on the lack of any substantive data... :(
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On Friday, July 5, 2013 12:29:16 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:

Hmmm. I had to go back and read my comments.
I think I made my point very clear:
"It's a valid concern raised by the owner in the video and one that would require more data before a conclusion...could be reached."
Hey wait a sec, I thought you wanted this debate to "rest"?

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wrote:

And then they got some loony to make a video raising doubt in the minds of others. Nice subversive marketing.
Lets get to the facts. If you take a SawStop home in the back of a Toyota, the accelerator will suddenly take over and make you car go very fast and crash. Properly set up and anchored, the SawStop can prevent your Audi from accelerating and crashing through the back of the garage.
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On 7/5/2013 10:05 AM, dpb wrote:

move that much on start up. Basically the blades have more give.
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On 7/5/2013 9:49 AM, snipped-for-privacy@garagewoodworks.com wrote:

It is a valid concern but he has shown it to SawStop and they were not concerned. And no the SawStop people don't dismiss because of indifference or ignorance of their product. FWIW, this 1.75hp PCS saw is their basic entry level portable saw made stationary inside a cabinet. That cabinet is basically the only similarity to a "full blown cabinet saw".
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On 7/5/2013 9:39 AM, dpb wrote:

table top is probably not going to affect performance. He is probably being too AR and or not understanding why the Malibu cant keep up with the Corvette. ;~) He has a contractors saw wrapped in a cabinet.
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